Why Do We Love James Wan?

Why do we love James Wan?

Jarrod and Robert dive deep into the James Wan horror universe, revisiting all five Insidious films in chronological order and exploring what makes these movies so much more than simple possession stories.

From Lin Shaye's evolution into the emotional anchor of the Insidious franchise, to the terrifying logic of The Further, the Bride in Black, the ghosts that look almost too real, and the surprisingly complex character arcs woven throughout the series, we unpack why James Wan's horror stays with us long after the credits roll.

We also venture into The Conjuring, Annabelle, The Nun, and Sinister—and debate what makes some horror genuinely effective, why the first Sinister may be one of the hardest watches of the entire bunch, and why sometimes the scariest place to watch a scary movie is… your own house.

Plus: why we prefer streaming movies at home, the movies that are actually worth seeing in a theater, and our dream idea for a Twilight Zone-style series set inside the Warrens' haunted museum.

Grab the popcorn, turn down the lights (or don't), and join us for a very spooky conversation about why we love being scared.

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Transcript

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unknown 0:16

I like your dolls.

Robert 0:18

Hi.

Jarrod 0:19

Hi.

Robert 0:20

We're talking about James Wan.

Jarrod 0:24

James Wan, yes. And most specifically the Insidious franchise. But we're gonna dabble in some of the other ones too.

Robert 0:35

Can't help it now. It's such a huge universe that they're all tied together. They kind of all play into one.

Jarrod 0:41

Yeah. So what did we just do?

Robert 0:43

No, we watched every single insidious movie over the s over the course of like two two two and a half days.

Jarrod 0:51

Three and a half. Yeah. So we've seen all of the insidious movies, the conjuring movies, the Annabelle movies, and even the Sinister movies, which are not a part of the aforementioned three universe movies.

Robert 1:05

And the Nun movies.

Jarrod 1:06

Oh, and the Nun, which is.

Robert 1:08

Yeah.

Jarrod 1:09

Um. And we recently, this past weekend, re-watched them all, but we did it novella style, which means in chronological order rather than release date.

Robert 1:23

Yeah, that was interesting. I poo-pooed it at first, just like whatever, I've already seen them. I don't care what order I watched them in.

Jarrod 1:29

Debbie Downer.

Robert 1:31

No, I just didn't see I didn't see the point in doing it.

Jarrod 1:35

I know you didn't see the point in doing it. And honestly, I wasn't sure that there was a point in doing it. It just sounded like well, it sounded interesting and it sounded like an excuse to kind of have like an end-of-summer horror movie binge.

Robert 1:49

Yeah, it was a cool idea, especially having seen them already. Be like, oh, well, let's try it this way.

Jarrod 1:54

Yep. And so that means we watched three, four, one, two, and then five. And now we are waiting for the sixth one to stream because we don't go to the movie theaters anymore, which uh we talked about briefly in our Disneyland episode. We've mentioned it a few times over the years. And it actually gave us a different perspective, I think, of the lore of the insidious franchise.

Robert 2:21

Yeah.

Jarrod 2:21

And I remember going into it thinking uh I did not like number four, which was the lost key, and ended up really liking it after watching the third one, um, which was the one with the man who couldn't breathe.

Robert 2:38

Yeah, I was uh thinking back on them before we watched them, was anticipating not wanting to re-watch three, four, and five just because I enjoy the first two so much. Um, and those always seemed like they had the tightest stories and the most cohesive, with three, four, five just kind of like weaving in. But I mentioned to you af as we were watching them, realizing that these movies are really about Lin Shea's character.

Jarrod 3:08

She's she's sort of the anchor of the storyline.

Robert 3:10

Yeah, she's the thread that that goes throughout. And and we see some of the characters uh revisited throughout the five films, but it's really I think anchor, like you said, is a good word. She really is the grounding force of what what happens and how to best approach or deal with the the demons or the entities or what's happening to these families, these people.

Jarrod 3:35

Right. I agree. And so starting with the third movie, um, that is that takes place first. Uh, I think it takes place in 2007. Um, and then you have the fourth one after that, which takes place in 2010, right before one and two, which also take place in 2010. And one and two, obviously, the first and second ones released in 2010 about the Lambert family. So let's start with number three. This this one, when we first saw it, really freaked me out. Like it gave me the heebie jeebies from the very beginning because there was a lot that happened during the day, right? And you're supposed to be safe when the sun is out. And this one totally wrecked that. You're supposed to be safe in your home. Nope. You're supposed to be safe in your bed in your bedroom, nope. And it's about this um girl who tries to reach out to her dead mother, and as Lin Shea tells us, when you basically holler at a dead person, all the dead can hear you. And she attracts the spirit of this man who died, and he just basically terrorizes her through the whole movie. In much the same way I feel like Captain Howdy terrorized Reagan. Like you break the person down to the point to where they're weak enough that you can take over their body.

Robert 5:10

Well, and she kept doing it. Kept reaching out. Yeah, Lynn Shea was like, You may you might want to not do that because when you ask for one, they all and she's like, Oh, okay, yeah, that's good, that's good advice. Mom, I are you there still? And it's just like, all right, fine, don't learn your lesson, watch what happens.

Jarrod 5:26

And that's kind of also scary in and of itself because you think uh sometimes, like even with our dogs, I'm just like, Oh, I miss you, Halston, or I I miss you, Chacha, I miss you, Ella. Like, you know, or sometimes to my dad or my grandmother. You just say something out loud to them, and then you're like, oh geez, every time do I do that, or is like every dead person, if you believe in this kind of thing, able to hear me.

Robert 5:55

I yeah, I I think there's a difference in in how you do it and how like I think most people do it, and how she was portraying that in the film. Because usually in in those moments, like you're talking about with the dogs or with your dad, it's not for the sake of having a conversation or connecting or trying to make sense of like not trying to make contact. Yeah, there's no like I don't I have to get closure, like it's none of that. You're just like thinking of them in that moment. Whereas these these people like this girl, uh very clearly trying to make a connection because she misses her mom and she wants her mom back in some way, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Yep.

Robert 6:36

And that's where that danger lies. Like you can't have you can't expect that to happen and and not have bad things happen as well. Because it's just not the it's not the order.

Jarrod 6:48

The order, yeah, yeah. Um, and so once that call, so to speak, is heard, and whoever's on the other end answers it, then chaos and horror ensues. And like I said, this one really freaked me out, and when we rewatched it, it freaked me out again. And I remember you saying, Oh, I don't really remember a whole lot about this one, and then through the whole movie, I'm like, Oh my god, I cannot believe you don't remember this. I can't believe you don't remember this. I cannot believe you don't remember this. It was so freaking freaky.

Robert 7:24

I remember some of the scares. Oh um, I think most of all, I just didn't remember how the story itself played out because it just didn't catch me.

Jarrod 7:35

Yeah. Uh well, and then we're also introduced to Lin Shea at a moment in time where she has kind of tried to denounce her her gift. She can't spend time in that universe because she knows that it's horrible. And she's also dealing with the loss, uh, I think the suicide of her husband. So she's just in this really broken state as well, and probably as a psychic in a medium, knowing that her own personal state of mind makes her vulnerable when she's trying to help other people. And I just found that very fascinating, uh, watching this in chronological order, being that the first introduction that we get to her. Whereas when you watch them in the order that they're released, she comes into the picture as this very um confident, capable, psychic medium who is in control, is faced with, you know, the the red-faced demon and is having her assistant sketch him out and just strong. Yeah, she comes in like Zelda from poltergeist. Yeah, standing on business, right? Um, but then we realize that that's not where she is coming from in the start of this insidious universe that we're led into. And I just found that very interesting. And and mostly because I think that it humanizes her and the storyline in the sense that the storyline itself is very fantastical and otherworldly, and then you have this very real, relatable human being in that story and in that universe that pulls you in.

Robert 9:17

I think that's the appeal for a lot of James Wan's films is that sense of humanity that you don't really get in too many horror films. It's it's easy to make an exorcism film, right? Because you find someone who is uh sad or depressed or weak in a weakened state, they become possessed, you have good people come in to try to fight the demon, and then if it ends well, it ends well, and that's great. But James Wan does a really great job, especially in this series, in developing the characters in a way and the story where it actually means something. It's not just a simple possession story, whether it's the house possessed or the kid possessed, yeah, it's a story of these people who have uh overcome a lot in their lives and still continue to do so and are still learning how to do so um uh through like really scary stuff.

Jarrod 10:15

Yes, yes, and then speaking of scary stuff, so the next movie is The Lost Key. And for some reason, my memory of that movie when we watched it when it first came out was not that great. But then we watched it this time, and I was like, Well, this is scary, this is horrifying, this is also relatable, and we get a lot of exposition on Lin Shea's character. Uh, we go back to her childhood and her childhood home and the struggle that she had with her gift and how it affected her family and how she was treated because of it.

Robert 10:56

Yeah, that was a lot of it was very difficult to watch and interesting to watch play out. Um, it's one of those cases where you you think something is very clearly uh the way it is, the way it portrays it. And then as the film goes uh goes on, I found myself shocked so many times, thinking, oh my god, no, that's what's happening. That's what's actually happening. It watching this movie the second time is the way I felt watching uh the second Insidious, as as things are opening up and and the story is revealing itself in such a robust, kind of swirly way. Um that was very exciting.

Jarrod 11:41

Yeah, and you find out that her father, who you think is just this abusive father because he's scared of this unknown thing that this his daughter has is actually being controlled by this demon that is in the house. And um, and sort of anybody who lives in that house, I guess like the man of the house basically is taken over by this demon, and they become serial killers. So, spoiler alert to anybody who's listening. Well, how did you say it after you've reviewed?

Robert 12:16

I mean, well, if you haven't seen it by now, I mean I think that's standard.

Jarrod 12:21

Yeah, we're talking about the movie. We're dissecting the movie.

Robert 12:23

If you've never seen it, don't listen.

Jarrod 12:25

Right. Um, and and I just I again I found it very interesting. You um really see a lot of Lynche's character's family development and the relationships and how they play out. Uh, her mother is killed when she's a child by the demon. She opens the door. And you also find out, too, and you and I were kind of chuckling about this. Everything that happens in the insidious universe over the course of these five movies, because we haven't seen the sixth one yet, kind of Lynche's fault. Yeah.

Robert 12:57

Oops.

Jarrod 12:58

Like it's basically these movies are her going back and fixing these mistakes that she actually unintentionally made. But it's always about her not understanding her gift, being taken advantage of for it, and then having to deal with the consequences that follow.

Robert 13:18

I like that element of it too. Yeah. There's a moment, I think, in the second Insidious, where she's watching uh the main character in that film, Josh. Uh she's watching him guide his younger self in a direction, and she watches it play out, having been both in that scenario as her younger self and her current self, and says, Oh, so that's what that was about. Right. And that was funny to me. It's like a little cheeky and kind of a silly throwaway line. But if you think about it, it says a lot about her and her journey. How she's not coming in like Lorraine Warren, uh as she's sometimes portrayed as this know it all. Uh, she's experienced and seen it all, so she knows how to handle the situation. Right. Um, I appreciate her characterization too in the films because in the conjuring movies, because she there is there is weakness and there is reality that you can relate to her despite that slight character. Yeah. Um but watching those moments with Lynn Shea, where she she seems she still seems like a little girl. Like she's still learning, she's still trying to capture what her gift means, how she can use it to help people, which I think is her ultimate goal. And I think they've probably said that a few times. Um but yeah, it's moments like that to where I'm like, oh gosh, I really love this character.

Jarrod 14:53

Yeah. And in the first movie, it was such a shock when her character was killed. Right. And you're like, holy crap. But then you get her in these two movies, really, the the it's all about her. So Lynn Shea as an actress also gets the level of appreciation that she deserves after her character is killed in the first movie and the following movies, which I think is really great. And she always she's always coming back.

Robert 15:22

She's in all of them. I also love that they don't bring her back as like a Star Wars force ghost. She's not all like woozy and ooh, it's me. Oh, let me help you. Yeah. She shows up as as herself, and you almost wonder if she is actually there or not. Like we know when they're in there in in the uh I was gonna say the nothing. That's not what it's called.

Jarrod 15:42

The further.

Robert 15:42

But when they're in the further, um you know that it's not her because of the way that she's talking and the way that she's acting. But there are moments when she's perceived in in real life, in the actual reality that we're we're a part of, where you're like, is she actually there? Is she yeah, it's cool.

Jarrod 16:03

Well, and I think that that kind of representation of a dead person is also a little bit more realistic. You know, it's not floaty, woo, and and there is a lot of that, but this is a really nice counterbalance to give somebody the ability to suspend their disbelief while they're watching these movies because everything isn't presented in this like hokey pokey, supernatural sort of way. There are very real moments in this supernatural storytelling experience.

Robert 16:39

They treat, I think, all of the ghosts or most of the ghosts that way, at least the um like the mother that comes back to the the girl who has the broken legs, when she comes back in the seance to help, she comes back in a very real way. She just looks like a woman who's sitting at the table helping them with the seance. Right. And they even do that with some of the scarier characters who um maybe the more evil entities who've come back in moments, they look like real actual people. They they're in various states of uh decomposing, some of them. Some of them, yeah. Um, but for the most part, I think the characters in the film, as they're interacting with these ghosts, are also not sure. Is there just a person in my house? Yeah, is there an intruder in my house? They don't even think about the ghost element of it.

Jarrod 17:27

And I think that that's also a distinction in these movies between the spirits and the demons. So the spirits are people who have walked the earth and died and crossed over into the further, and then you have these demon entities that are sort of mingling with them and their experiences. And that was also a really cool, albeit unfortunate, twist in The Lost Key, when Lin Shea's character as a girl thinks she's seeing a dead person. Oh, yeah, and then it turns out that she was actually her father's captor who escaped and was trying to flee the house.

Robert 18:07

Yeah.

Jarrod 18:07

And the amount of guilt that Lin Shea's character felt when she came to the realization that she wasn't a ghost, she was a real person, and she didn't help her. But you know, I think that also plays into human nature and and the idea of of regret and making right choices and decisions and how we hold ourselves accountable for the decisions that we make or the mistakes that we make.

Robert 18:36

Yeah. And in this case, it it felt like she was almost holding herself accountable for her father's mistakes at times, like recognizing that he was a monster and that he was doing these terrible things. Um there were moments where I felt like she was taking that on in trying to not absolve herself, but to make things better for that soul or for that that woman. Now I I was under the perception that there were a few uh women that she was seeing over the years while she was living in that house with her father.

Jarrod 19:12

I did not get that.

Robert 19:13

Because I remember her saying that I I see I see these people all the time. They're always there, and I see a few of them. So I feel like she was seeing actual spirits because she does have the gift, it's not just that interaction with her father. But I was getting that there were there were others in the house, not just that one.

Jarrod 19:33

Yeah, I think that she was specifically talking about the spirits of the prisoners who had been executed. So for me, that was strictly about seeing dead people. Right. This was a one-off because uh with what you're saying, that means that all of her father's captors would have had to escape at some point in time. And I just don't I I don't think that that is a plausible pot plot or a part of the storytelling. I think that because she only saw dead people, when she saw this person in the state that they were in, she mistook them for being dead because they just looked like crap from being held captive in the basement.

Robert 20:20

That makes sense. I think I was just confused when she went further into that pipe and saw all of the stacks of suitcases of the other bodies that had died. But that was the previous men who lived in the house.

Jarrod 20:30

Well, I it I think it was her father.

Robert 20:33

Uh-huh.

Jarrod 20:33

But her finding out that her father was a serial killer while under the control of this demon doesn't mean that she was aware of the prisoners while it was happening because she had no idea that this was happening.

Robert 20:49

That makes sense.

Jarrod 20:50

And those also could have been after she left because she fleed the house and she left her brother there. So there was a big period of time between the time that she left and the time that her father died that he came further under the spell of this demon and committed these crimes against these women.

Robert 21:11

It's crazy.

Jarrod 21:12

It's super crazy. Great story of that. And I think that it's also a really great analogy about childhood trauma and how we take that trauma into our adulthood and how that shapes our perception of the world around us and why it's so important to not only let it go and not hold on to that, but to be open to changing your perception with new, more accurate information about how the world is operating around you, versus, you know, again, referencing that keyhole perspective that I talk about so much. Because we do take our childhood trauma with us into adulthood. And I think that's again why it's important to practice self-awareness and mindfulness because those tools help us to have a better understanding of the world around us and how to make more productive decisions based on those more accurate perspectives.

Robert 22:06

Yeah, I agree.

Jarrod 22:08

So then we move on to chapters one and two. The first one, I mean, it it was just like, what the hell is happening? Like it was just so visually scary.

Robert 22:26

Yeah, lots of really great moments. I I I'll always remember the first time hearing Tip Throw Through the Tulips. Oh my god. And seeing that little newsboy dance around.

Jarrod 22:36

Whatever that was.

Robert 22:37

And like when she's like doing laundry or something just so innocuous and walking by and he's face facing the wall as she walks by. And it's such a glimpse where like we as the audience clearly saw it because we're paying attention and it's large enough. But it's you even said, How did she not see him?

Jarrod 22:55

How does she not see that? Especially when it's the second house that they're in. So she's already aware that these supernatural elements are happening around her and her family. Yeah. Yet somehow is just turned off her perception.

Robert 23:10

And it's broad daylight.

Jarrod 23:11

Again, broad daylight.

Robert 23:13

Um it's it's just it's such a great, it gives me the chills now because it's it's it's not an evil entity in that moment. We're not seeing the the danger associated with it, but there is stress, there is anxiety because like there's this weird little kid doing a jig in my house to this awful song.

Jarrod 23:31

Well, and what we come to realize is that her son um fell in the attic and hit his head, and then the next morning was suspected to be in a coma, but really was not in a coma, was astral projecting, and the red-faced demon uh is basically holding him captive in this further arena, so that the longer he's not in his body, the weaker the body comes, and the easier it is for this, the red-faced demon to inhabit the body. But because the body is just lying there as a shell, it's attracting all these spirits, not just the demons, and that little boy is one of them, and they want the body because they crave life, which we now know. But the red demon or the red-faced demon is so desperate to take over his body that he is he becomes the closest to it, and he's the one that's creating all of this havoc. And then in the first house that they're in, um there multiple spirits and demons are kind of attacking them. And the one that really scared me was the guy in the trench coat.

Robert 24:47

And it's really effective. Really effective.

Jarrod 24:50

Like when she the first time is when she goes into the nursery and he's standing at the foot of the crib behind the like that scrim, whatever it is they have. I mean, just and in broad daylight.

Robert 25:01

Yeah, you see you're seeing the face, but not the full face.

Jarrod 25:05

Exactly. And then the next time we see him, Rose Burns character is lying in bed at night by herself, and she sees him pacing outside the bedroom window on what I guess is a balcony, and he's walking back and forth outside the window. And each time he walks back and forth, he goes off screen, comes back on screen, goes off screen, and then boom, all of a sudden he's on the interior side of the window. And it was just such a and the musical score too is fantastic, right? Yeah, it's excellent. And and then she realizes he's inside now, and then he sees her and goes after her, and it was just such a terrifying moment. And then then she's like, That's it, we we we're out of here, and they go to this new house, and of course, everything follows them because the boy is still in the quote unquote coma, and these spirits are just around him because he's this sort of beacon for them.

Robert 26:03

Yeah. That whole that whole exchange with with the guy in the trench coat and then with Patrick Wilson locking the door and setting the alarm and the door opening itself and the alarm going off, that was all so uh um like iconic as I'm watching the film. Just like, well, I've never really seen this kind of play before, as it's like happening to both of these people at the same time in different ways. Uh, and then to watch how that opens up and how what was actually happening in the second chapter. Yes. Yeah, it's just it's so cool to it goes beyond Easter egg and it really just becomes uh a full story element. Yes.

Jarrod 26:43

It's really and it really emphasizes that time is not linear. And I think that's just such a hard concept for the human brain to grasp.

Robert 26:53

It's also really easy in fantasy science fiction to overconvolute it and make it really confusing and not fun.

Jarrod 27:02

Yes.

Robert 27:02

Uh this was a way to really simplify it and make it fun and spooky. And I think it gave everyone like a oh, an aha moment. Oh, I understand what's happening. Yeah. Okay, that's what that was about. Yes. And that's a very satisfying.

Jarrod 27:16

So then the the first movie ends with Josh played by Patrick Wilson as the dad, uh finding out that he is also an astral projector.

Robert 27:28

Astrophysicist.

Jarrod 27:29

Astrophysicist. And then there's this um other entity, the bride in black, that has been following Patrick Wilson his whole life, and um that's like portrayed in pictures of him as a little kid, which is why there's no pictures of him around uh in his adulthood as him, you know, him as a child or as an adult. And then he kind of forgot about it, and then his mom calls the Lin Shea character for help, and you know, then it's explained that Lin Shea met him and that he's an astral projector, and that's where his son got it from. So he goes into the further to rescue his son, and they come back, but not before him encountering this bright and black character. And so the the movie ends with Lin Shea getting killed, and then we go boom right into the second movie. It's the day after, um, from the first movie. So there's no time in between the first and two movies, even though, of course, there was no time between the releases. And then we start to get deeper into the backstory of the Bride in Black, which to me is one of the more fascinating characters and a character that has followed us through the whole franchise.

Robert 28:51

Something else that I think James Wan does a really good job with is creating characters that you can sympathize with, whether they're good or bad characters, but also developing strong enough story arcs for each of these characters that you're you're curious to know where they came from and why, yes, and where they're going, how they interact with these other characters. Um Ryan Murphy used to be really great at that. It's gotten a little convoluted over the years. He he is now, like, I really enjoy what he's doing in the shards. Yeah, but the most recent seasons of American Horror Story, I feel like that's fallen off the wayside for the sake of stunt casting and huge casting. Let's bring on as many people as we can. Yeah, the more you can confuse people, the more people will watch it and think that they're watching something good.

Jarrod 29:42

Um well, and it gives them water cooler fodder.

Robert 29:45

Yeah, exactly. Uh, but James Wan's really great at introducing new characters that you want to know that really drive the story in great ways. I remember watching the first two Insidious movies and thinking that the two Ghostbuster guys who turn out to be Lynche's assistants, yes, were just kind of silly throwaway characters. They were fun, comic relief, but not really bringing anything to the story. Yeah. But as as I'm re-watching these five films and seeing these two characters really develop as members of Lynche's new chosen family, then again, two characters that you thought were one thing that you've really grown to love and relate to that you're you want to see more of.

Jarrod 30:25

And an interesting note, the character Specs is played by the actor Lee Waddell, and he's also the writer of the screenplay for the first four movies, I believe. Oh, I didn't know that. And yes, and in the third and fourth movie, he was also the director.

Robert 30:42

Oh.

Jarrod 30:43

Yeah.

Robert 30:44

That's cool. I know. I really did not know that.

Jarrod 30:46

Little fun fact.

Robert 30:47

Yeah, I thought he was just some guy. I mean, good at it, but just some guy.

Jarrod 30:51

Yeah. That's cool. Um, so I yeah, and I agree with what you're saying. And and I will say that the second chapter two, the second movie, really is probably one of the more visually scary movies. There are so many elements that we are introduced to that at the time we hadn't really seen before. There are a lot of flashbacks, and we find out that the Bride in Black is actually a man. Uh, Parker, don't remember his last name.

Robert 31:20

As a man, Maury.

Jarrod 31:21

As a man, Maury. And um Barbara Hershey, who plays Josh's mom, and Josh played by Patrick Wilson, is in this flashback scene, works in a nursing home or a hospital, and she takes Josh there as a little boy, and he's just wandering around this room, and then he's kind of attacked by this man on his deathbed. And it turns out, long story short, too late, that this man is a serial killer. And when he kills the women, he dresses up as a woman and wears this black wedding gown with a veil. And then we find out through flashbacks in the further, in the spirit realm, that his mother was a very evil person. And when the father left, she tried to make him behave like a girl. And the scenes with that mother are one of the most visually striking and unsettling scenes in the movie, and I think in the Insidious franchise.

Robert 32:26

Yeah, she's a great villain. I don't I don't know what her name is, but she is very Disney villain in the way that she moves, the way that her makeup is very elongated, and she has very sharp jutting movements. Um she's amazing. I she also reminded me of in the first film when we would see the ghosts and they were very static with those smiles on their faces, and then they would creepy. They would quickly jump to another position and like stare at you or look at the camera or very actors gang. Yeah, they're really cool, really cool moments.

Jarrod 32:57

Yep, I agree. And and she does this thing, like her whole thing is like, don't you dare, and then she smacks Little Parker. Screaming it's so good. And then when she comes into contact with people in the real world, she does that again, that don't you dare, and then smacks them. And we are given like Lynn Shea's character's POV when we first are introduced to her in a in a kind of like a further flashback scene, and it's you're just like this fly on the wall. It's like a vignette. And then all of a sudden it stops. Yeah. And she realizes she's being watched by us as the audience, and then turns and points and screams, which we now know is the spirit's way of letting all the dead in the further know that there's a living person that's here that shouldn't be here. And so it just creates this instant sense of dread and threat that uh you really want to escape.

Robert 33:59

It's pretty great.

Jarrod 34:00

It's really good. Um, so we come to find out that the bride in black actually took over Josh's body and came back into the real world and is living as him. Oops. Oops, and is trying to kill the family because he is being once again controlled by his mother in spirit form, and uh Josh's body is starting to decompose because it's inhabited by a dead person, and the mother keeps telling him the only way to keep yourself alive is to kill the members of the family. So then he goes on this sort of like Jack Nicholson shining spree of trying to kill his family members, and in the end, the son Dalton, who was in the the quote unquote coma in the first movie, goes into the further to contact his dad and brings his dad back and um saves the day.

Robert 34:55

I always love that he goes to sleep to go into the further. He's like, Mom, just let me do it. I'll go to sleep real quick. How does he fall asleep so fast?

Jarrod 35:04

Um, that's interesting coming from you who falls asleep the second your head hits the pillow. Good night, honey. Sleep well. Into the further. And it's like, oh, who do you think you are going to sleep that fast? Meanwhile, I'm up for hours taking multiple sleeping medications. Actually, since we've been doing the testosterone pellets, my s I've it's been much easier for me to fall asleep and sleep throughout the night. Those have been amazing.

Robert 35:33

I have a little bit of a sleep hygiene thing going on where I like try to prep myself, but it's it's always interesting to watch that.

Jarrod 35:39

Almost on the blue light special. I I it's computer, phone, TV.

Robert 35:46

I don't think it's a um I don't think it's like a uh a mistake in the film at all. I think being part of uh or being able to astro project astro business. I think they have that ability to hypnotize themselves when they need to, where they want to. They know how to click it on.

Jarrod 36:05

Um especially children, right? Oh yeah. They're so adept at navigating what those of us in the real world kind of say, oh, that's not real, that doesn't exist.

Robert 36:17

Well, they're not distracted by all the adult bullshittery.

Jarrod 36:21

They're not so black and white in their perception of the world. Seriously.

Robert 36:24

Yeah. So again, another very satisfying ending to that one, to what we think wraps up the whole story.

Jarrod 36:31

Correct. But now we come to the fourth movie, The Red Door. Ten years later. Yes. And Dalton has grown up and in college and having these nightmares, but really is astral projecting into the further, but he's not aware of it because at the end of the second movie, both he and his father were hypnotized to forget about their ability to astral project and the further and everything that they went through.

Robert 37:00

Right. Because we've learned that suppressing things is really good.

Jarrod 37:03

Right. Yeah. It's the American way.

Robert 37:06

Now, this is the fifth film and the fifth in the sequence, yeah.

Jarrod 37:09

Uh oh, yes, you're correct. The fifth film, not the fourth, the fifth film, The Red Door. Um, and and Josh, Patrick Wilson's character, is like getting all these MRIs and trying to figure out why he's so foggy and doing these like stupid memory exercises.

Robert 37:25

And not connected to his family anymore. Correct.

Jarrod 37:28

They're divorced, and the the Dalton the Sun really hates him and estranged and sad because he doesn't remember remembering that his father tried to kill him. And so, like two-thirds or three-quarters of the way into the movie, Rose Byrne comes in and gives us sort of the anchoring exposition and tells Patrick Wilson, you were hypnotized to forget this, but you were possessed by this entity and you tried to kill us. And the children at that age didn't know that it wasn't you. They just have these foggy memories of their father trying to kill them. And so again, they go into the further, the further they go. And and through that experience, Dalton and Josh heal their relationship and kind of you know, go to bat for each other in this horrible place. Yeah. And um they I thought they came out of it in a really great way. Um, it wasn't like um the ending of like Roger Rabbit when they break through the wall and like all the cartoon birds are singing. Right. But it I felt like it was a really great conclusion to the Lambert storyline, which is the the name of this the family um played by uh Patrick Wilson and Rose Byrne and and the children. Um and and then that is kind of taking us into the sixth movie.

Robert 39:06

Which I know nothing about.

Jarrod 39:07

Don't know anything about it. It was just released this past weekend. Um, I think it's called Out of the Further. And the only thing that I know about it based on the one trailer that I saw is these spirits and demons have now found a way out of the further and into our world without having to possess a body. Great. So awesome. Um Lynn Shea left another door open somewhere. Oh, way to go. Nice.

Robert 39:35

Thanks, Elise.

Jarrod 39:37

And and uh so I have no idea how that plays out, but the trailer that I did see looks terrifying, and I'm really excited to see it. But again, we are waiting for streaming because especially with a movie like this, yeah, I want a controlled environment so I can really immerse myself. I mean, we've we've got a big screen TV and we've got like colored lights, and we can pop our own popcorn and make our movie salad. We've got the dogs with us, and it's just uh to me, it's a better experience because it's a more controlled environment for us to really focus on the content without being distracted by the general population and bad manners.

Robert 40:20

And I think that that's the intention for most filmmakers. I think they want you to be able to immerse yourself in the story, they want you to be able to uh completely give yourself to the experience. And it's really difficult. Not without trying. You and I have gone to those plused up like VIP movie houses where there's like 20 seats or whatever, and you're still having a lot of the same bullshit. It's just more expensive and with older people.

Jarrod 40:46

Right. Um we found, which is no longer practical for us in our schedule, the best time to go to a movie is like the first showing on a Monday morning. Right. Like maybe there's two other people in there and they're like 70 years old, so you know they're not gonna be around. But we both work Mondays now and it's just not practical for us. And you know, I'm a homebody and I love being at home with the dogs and having that experience with you in our home. And it's just something I'm looking forward to.

Robert 41:13

It's fun on like a weekend night, like doing all the things that you've said and just making a night of it. It's sometimes I don't want to wake up at 10 in the morning and watch a horror film at a movie theater.

Jarrod 41:23

Well, or any film.

Robert 41:26

But we've tried, and I and yeah, to your point, it's just it's not it's not what it's like, oh, it's not what it used to be. It's just not it's just not fun. It's not fun. And if we have an opportunity to make it fun on our terms, why not?

Jarrod 41:38

Yep, yep.

Robert 41:39

Now there are movies that I that I think I would like to see in theaters, um, but that it just depends on the film specifically. It's not just because, oh, that's a movie I need to go see it in the theater.

Jarrod 41:52

There there were two movies in the last few years that we went to the theater to see. I think you've gone, but I I did not. And that was Late Night with the Devil and The Substance. And that's just because for the first time in a really long time, I saw trailers for two movies that I was like, holy shit, yeah, I have to see this. This looks like something that hasn't been done in such an incredibly long time. Like, I remember going to the movies and you'd see like five trailers, and there'd be like two movies in that batch of trailers where you're like, oh my God, that looks so great. Like you get excited about well, what is this movie experience going to be like? And then for years it was. It doesn't happen very often. Yeah. Yeah. So Late Night with the Devil, which is an amazing movie. I think we've talked about it before with David Desmalchian. It's just so brilliantly done.

Robert 42:49

I don't know if we saw that one in theaters. I think that was only a streaming release.

Jarrod 42:53

Really?

Robert 42:54

Yeah. Which is fine because it's made to replicate a TV. So I would want to watch that on TV anyway.

Jarrod 43:00

Well, I know we watched it a butt ton upstreaming.

Robert 43:03

Yeah. Um, I'm also really happy that we did see the substance in theaters because so much of that film was made to be in your face and gigantic in the worst way. Yeah. And that was really cool. We also saw Barbie in theaters. We did. But that was more of a cultural moment where it's like it we kind of have to go see this in theaters because of what it is. And I'm glad we did because that was really a lot of fun.

Jarrod 43:24

We strategically picked our times and days to go.

Robert 43:27

Yeah.

Jarrod 43:27

That we knew would be like low-key, and it was. But it's like I don't want to put all that effort into every single movie going experience. So we're just kind of we pick and choose. It is what it is. Referencing our uh one of our first episodes of this uh, I was gonna say this season, but this is kind of a new, a whole new platform and show for us. Uh, why why do we still stream? This is why. Yeah. This is why, because we want to have that controlled experience and environment without the distractions of other people who weren't raised under the same roof.

Robert 44:03

And grateful and thankful that we can.

Jarrod 44:04

Yeah. Um, now a couple other I think mentions before we wrap it up in the James One universe. First is the conjuring. Yeah. And that movie scared the bejesus out of both of us and really scared you.

Robert 44:20

It still does. It's one that I really have a hard time watching. Yeah. It's it's I agree.

Jarrod 44:26

I I I completely agree with you.

Robert 44:28

His use of of black space in in still moments is really terrifying.

Jarrod 44:34

Yep. And then like the the reveal is also just even if there isn't a reveal, like I think I see something in that corner every single time.

Robert 44:42

I hate it.

Jarrod 44:43

Why do you think I have the lighting scheme that we do in our house on the night?

Robert 44:47

And I walk through the hallway turning the lights on every single night.

Jarrod 44:50

Well, now you don't have to, because we have these installed sconces. Yeah.

Robert 44:53

Take that, James Wan. We've got sconces.

Jarrod 44:56

Until they like flicker.

Robert 44:58

Right, or shatter as we walk by.

Jarrod 45:00

I actually don't feel anything in this house.

Robert 45:02

For the first time in a while, I feel like you've you have felt something on you for quite some time.

Jarrod 45:08

Um I no, I I just there's been a couple places that we've lived where I've just like not wanted to look down the hallway when it was dark, you know, walking by an opening.

Robert 45:19

Well, it's not the house that's haunted, it's the Jared that's haunted.

Jarrod 45:22

No. Well, if that was the case, they know better now. It's like that that Instagram meme where the demon uh possesses my body. Oh, why does everything hurt?

Robert 45:37

Or that one where Freddie Cougar's sitting on the corner having a cigarette. He's like, I have one, nothing to do with those dreams. I'm seriously. I'm done.

Jarrod 45:45

Um Conjuring is is great. I for me, the standout scene was Bathsheba on the top on top of the wardrobe.

Robert 45:52

Oh, yeah.

Jarrod 45:53

That was just horrifying to me.

Robert 45:56

Yeah.

Jarrod 45:57

Um, so the Conjuring was super scary. Then Conjuring 2 was based on a real story again, which the first one was the Perone family. Then it was uh they went to England. Is that the Edinfield? Yes. Yeah, yes. Um, and that one was scary too. That's where we were introduced to uh the Nun and the tall thin man. The Crooked Man. Crooked Man. Yeah. And and that was actually, I think, supposed to be a movie, but it just never came to fruition, unfortunately. Not yet. There's still time. No. But The Nun uh became a a two movie. I thought you were gonna say The Nun played by I don't know. I don't know. Meryl Street. Meryl Street could be, right? Um and the nun, the first one was okay. The second one I thought was really good. I like them both. I do like them both, but I really liked the second one a lot. Um, is that a ghost?

Robert 46:59

It's in the machine. It's the ghost of my brain machine at work. Okay, I just turned it off.

Jarrod 47:05

See, that's why we can't go to the movie. That's why we can't have a movie. Someone doesn't remember to put do not disturb on. So the conjuring also introduced us to Annabelle. Yeah. The doll, which in reality is a raggedy and doll. And there was all kinds of shenanigans the last couple years with that doll after Lorraine died, and the son-in-law was like taking it on a tour, and houses were burning down everywhere it went, and the lore around Annabelle is really fantastic. And the real lore. The real lore. And then the movie, the first one was super scary. And then um there was the origin one, right? Which was like the beginning, and that one I thought was super scary too. Yep. Um, and then the third Annabelle movie, Annabelle Comes Home, I loved. I don't know that it was the scariest one, but it all took place inside the Warren home. And you know how I am about movies that entirely take place in one home. There's just something like eerily cozy about it, or you can like hunker down and get ready for something.

Robert 48:10

Well, we've talked about it before. It's it's that like tight storytelling. Yeah. Because you don't have to worry about the setting changes or anything like that. It's it's taking place in one moment, in one time, in one place. And you're just watching it transpar transpire. Yep, yep. And there is something satisfying about that real-time play. Like you are watching a play.

Jarrod 48:26

Yeah. Yep. And then that is where uh a lot of new characters are introduced to us, like the fairy man where you have to put the coins over the eyes. Yeah. And uh it wasn't La Yorona, but that's another super scary.

Robert 48:43

Did he do that one too?

Jarrod 48:44

I th I think so.

Robert 48:46

Now that I'm now I'm questioning it, I totally forgot about it.

Jarrod 48:48

Well, we'll have to we'll have to figure that out. Yeah, we'll we'll IMDB that. Um and then um but it was the crying bride, I think. But these were all characters that had like remnants of their lore in the Warren Museum. Right. And so they were all like being woken up. And it was just like it was like the monster squad. It was like this convergent. Yeah, totally. It was very cool. Of like these supernatural villains, and I thought really well done.

Robert 49:18

Well, as we as we've watched the conjuring films and and experienced these moments with the Warrens over the years, you and I have always said, like, oh, wouldn't it be cool if there was a TV series, Twilight Zone style, where you would go into the Warren's museum, so to speak, and every episode was based on a singular item that was in their their cursed museum that was like forever locked away. So it's like Annabelle, but any of those other countless artifacts that they have in there. Yep. And I think you said that they're actually doing that now, right? Like there is some sort of Warren mini-series being put into production.

Jarrod 49:52

I'm seeing so much TV series.

Robert 49:55

It's hard with TikTok or Instagram because anyone could make whatever shit up, you never know. Yeah. Um, unless it's like fully announced, yep, comic-con, all that stuff. Yeah. Yep. But I still think that would be a really cool idea. Yeah. If I had any sort of money or backing or founding, like I would do it myself because I'm so interested in that prospect.

Jarrod 50:15

But well, you know, any producers that are out there, let's talk. Yeah, you never know. You never know.

Robert 50:21

I s I think it would be really cool.

Jarrod 50:22

I would love it. And then the for me, the last chapter of the James Wan universe, which is not connected to the other movies, is sinister. And the first one was with Ethan Hawke. And that one was so creepy, it was eerie. Yeah. There were like all these recorded death scenes. Yeah, I don't like those movies. Like with this demon taking over the kids and and one kid in the family and then killing all of them. And the the death scenes were like very ritualistic. Oh my god, like the the the ones that got me were the ones that were tied up on the lawn that got over by a lawnmower. It's really bad. Oh, it's so bad.

Robert 50:56

I think I've seen each of them once and and was very disturbed by them. I appreciate them. They're great films, but I I can't watch them.

Jarrod 51:04

I've seen each of I I've seen both sinister movies, I think, twice. And the second one with Shannon Sossaman from the uh Rules of Attraction, which is a Brett Easton Ellis novel-turned movie, plays a mom of two boys and the demon is coming after one of them. And again, it's just a really well-done movie. The second one for me, I think got a little children of the corn. I really enjoyed the second one, but I almost think maybe I enjoyed the second one because it was a little bit easier or more palatable to watch. Whereas the first one it was horrific.

Robert 51:42

They were trying to outdo it.

Jarrod 51:43

Oh well, I don't know that they were trying to outdo it. It's just there was something really awful about those VHS videotape quality vignettes of the death scenes. They were horrible.

Robert 51:58

It's the reason I don't like to watch them.

Jarrod 52:00

It was, I would say, out of all of the movies in the James Wan universe, regardless of how scary they are, the first Sinister is probably the hardest watch.

Robert 52:11

Yeah.

Jarrod 52:11

But and then it haunts you too. And then you're like, oh my God, the more I think about this, like, am I gonna let something in?

Robert 52:17

It's part of why I don't like to watch them. Like, I don't go that far, but I'm I'm constantly thinking about it and feeling not good about it, but I just don't like having that on me. That feels like weight and and energy that I don't like.

Jarrod 52:29

And that's effective storytelling. Yeah. And I get why people don't like it. Right. And then someone like me, I like that loves it. Yeah, that because it gives me an adrenaline rush. And and and what does that do? It gives me like an endorphin and dopamine rush, right? And and it's like writing a roller coaster, like you know you're gonna be okay. Uh but there's that element of you know, suspension of disbelief and going with the the thrill of it, knowing that you're ultimately you're gonna be safe. There are times where I do watch these movies and it'll kind of stick around, it'll get a little sticky, and like I'll be walking through the house and I'll be like, ooh, ooh, I just get a creepy feeling. Yeah, but then I realize that that is my mind, that is my imagination, locked on an image. And it it's haunting. And again, that's really effective storytelling.

Robert 53:25

Yeah.

Jarrod 53:25

So there there are elements where I enjoy it, but also as I get older, like with roller coasters, I you know, I'm picking and choosing. I think uh, you know, getting a little more savvy about what I expose myself to because you don't need scary movies to be scared by the state of the world. Right. And that's another reason why scary movies are great too, because it's a way to distract yourself from the real scary in the world, right?

Robert 53:50

Yeah.

Jarrod 53:50

Yeah. So I think on that note, we're gonna wrap this James Wan episode up. And um sweet dreams, we will see you next Tuesday.