Why Are We So Destructive?

Why are humans so destructive?

What makes someone scratch the paint off a Disney attraction, vandalize public property, attack a stranger online, leave trash behind, or make choices that put an entire community at risk?

What starts as a question about destruction quickly becomes a conversation about ownership, entitlement, powerlessness, empathy, and our need to feel seen.

We talk about why people may destroy things that belong to everyone, why social media makes it so easy to forget the human being on the other side of the screen, and whether some destructive behavior is really an attempt to leave a mark—to prove that we existed.

We also get personal, revisiting some of our own destructive moments, from water balloons and miniature golf to the strange power of realizing you can get someone else to do something simply because they want to impress you.

And eventually, we arrive at a much harder question: what happens when we don't process the pain, frustration, and chaos we're carrying inside?

Maybe humans aren't inherently destructive. Maybe we're human beings trying to find somewhere to put everything we haven't learned how to process.

And perhaps the hardest thing isn't destroying something outside ourselves. It's turning the mirror around and taking responsibility for what needs to be healed within us.

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Transcript

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Jarrod 0:15

Hi, babe.

Robert 0:16

Hello.

Jarrod 0:17

How are you?

Robert 0:17

Oh, I'm good. I'm doing good. What are we talking about today? What is this? What is this?

Jarrod 0:22

Well, this is kind of piggybacking on our Disneyland episode. And it originally started off as a question of why are humans so destructive?

Robert 0:36

We did see a lot of that at the park.

Jarrod 0:38

At the park, yeah. We were, and specifically the new Mickey ride, we were standing in line, and I think we even mentioned it how there was like stickers and decals that had been scratched and peeled off. Paint peeling off. Yeah, and it's like by by a human hand. And then the question was like, why would someone do this? What does someone gain by doing this? And then in flushing that out, we kind of stumbled across a couple more questions. And I think rather than the topic being about destruction, it's more about ownership or entitlement. And why is something less valuable to people when it belongs to the people versus to one person?

Robert 1:29

That's interesting. Right? Yeah, I wasn't thinking about that. Because it's one thing to like, why are they so destructive about something that's clearly not their property? But the idea of it being clearly the property of the people.

Jarrod 1:43

Right.

Robert 1:44

Intended for the masses.

Jarrod 1:46

And I think because things that are intended for the people or the masses have more eyes on them. So then the question kind of evolves into is it really just about saying I was here? Is it about leaving a mark, leaving um some sort of corrupted version of legacy, even in a small, small way? And then we started talking about not just physical destruction, but emotional destruction or emotional damage and more specifically social media and how volatile people are on social media. And you know, everyone's like, oh, well, you know, people say things online that they wouldn't say in person because there's distance. But what is that distance providing? To me, I think that it's easier to ignore empathy when you are not standing in front of the person and able to see their face.

Robert 2:44

With that false sense of uh anonymity.

Jarrod 2:47

Well, I mean, this is going beyond anonymity. Anonymity. This is this is about a lack of empathy, right? Because what what are we really saying when we comment about people just like the the keyboard warriors behind the screen? Right? There's no empathy involved in that exchange because it's not live, it's not one-on-one as interactive as it may seem. Yeah. So I think that going back to our our previous episode, like, why do we want to matter? I think that humans inherently feel insignificant because there's so many of us. And I think it's one of the reasons why fame and celebrity is so attractive, because with that, fame and that celebrity and that notoriety, there are more people to hear the proverbial tree fall in the woods. And I think everyone wants to leave a mark. They want to know, well, if people don't remember me, they'll remember the initials I carved into this tree.

Robert 3:54

Oh, yeah.

Jarrod 3:55

Right?

Robert 3:55

Yeah.

Jarrod 3:56

And it's again, it's about wanting to feel significant, wanting to feel noticed, and wanting to feel valued. But I think that when it comes to parents and elders and mentors guiding younger generations, they're not properly guiding people on how to focus that energy.

Robert 4:20

Yeah, I would agree with that.

Jarrod 4:22

So it manifests its way in a destructive manner, even if people are not inherently destructive. So I think that people may not wake up every morning saying, How do I hurt somebody? But you know, the saying like hurt people hurt people. Well, why do hurt people hurt people instead of healing themselves? And then that goes into another previous episode about effort. That's why it's important to put the effort into the things that you do so that you are doing them not just for the right reasons, but with the right intention, which is your personal journey with the time that you have here during this human experience.

SPEAKER_03 5:08

Yeah.

Jarrod 5:10

Let's break it down. Let's break it down.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Yeah.

Jarrod 5:14

So what is it about this experience that makes people feel so insignificant that they have to set out to hurt other people? And is it possible as a human being, if you can feel seen, do you still get joy in making other people feel invisible or bad in those moments? Because what you're doing by vandalizing something is taking away or lessening the intended experience for somebody else. And a very again corrupted way of saying, Well, I was here and you're you're going to be forced to notice that I was here because of this damage or act of vandalism that I left behind.

Robert 5:57

Yeah. I was questioning too with that example specifically, if it were just an act of boredom. Like these people are stuck in a room waiting in line for however long, five minutes to an hour. Really doesn't matter because if they're going to do it, they're going to do it. Um, but I don't think it's just that because I can sometimes be bored in moments like that, but I also engage with the people around me. I look at my surroundings, I take it in, I get excited, but I'm not about to start breaking shit down and peeling stickers and paint off. And so yeah, it's interesting to think like someone in that scenario is just like, I know what I'm gonna do because I am feeling out of control in this moment. I am going to take control of something that I can and and also whether it's subconscious or not, take something away from other people.

Jarrod 6:55

Yeah, I think it goes beyond boredom and it's more of sort of a like a power versus powerless feeling that people have. And so they do something tangible so that they don't have to feel what they're feeling on the inside, they can put it on the outside.

Robert 7:15

Yeah. And it's the same thing on social media, right?

Jarrod 7:18

Very much so on social media. Uh I don't understand like how people get so volatile on social media. Uh, for example, I'll I'll talk about a personal experience that I had where uh we all know Zach Efron had all this like jaw.

Robert 7:37

His jaw was reconstructed.

Jarrod 7:39

Right.

Robert 7:39

Yes.

Jarrod 7:40

Right.

Robert 7:40

Well whether it's cosmetic or not.

Jarrod 7:42

And reconstructed is sort of like a opinionated term. Yeah. So there's, you know, some people believe that he just messed with his face and it didn't go well. Other people are buying into the story that he shattered his jaw on his countertop. And and I'm I'm, you know, I I don't believe that. Um, not because I don't believe Zach, and not because I don't believe that he looks horrible. But, you know, when you are that level of celebrity, you have an entire PR team that's making decisions for you. And I think that the dots just don't connect in a very transparent way.

SPEAKER_03 8:25

Yeah.

Jarrod 8:25

So without even mentioning anything about how he looks, because personally he looked different, but he didn't look bad.

Robert 8:33

No, he still looks great.

Jarrod 8:34

I think Zach Effron has always been an attractive person. I think that the st I think he took steroids, and I think that that also contributed to the way that his face looked, or at least the stuff that he had done to his face, how it responded. Because a lot of doctors have also come forward and said, you know, boxers completely shatter their jaw, and it doesn't take them as long to heal as it took Zach to heal. So my comment on that post was just he tried filler, didn't turn out right. His PR team said, Tell this story and that's okay.

Robert 9:12

That makes sense to me given the timeline, too, because he went from high school musical where he's like little gay twink, to um I'm thinking like the notable role. So then he went to Baywatch, where he was just like full muscle, but like lean, to that uh wrestling movie where yeah, he probably did take something to help build that extra form and and to make his face look more masculine to help sell the character through. I can see that being the case.

Jarrod 9:45

And and going back to what I've been saying recently, separating the subject from the object of a statement, um, there were a a number of people that sounded off and attacked me. And I wasn't saying anything about the way that he looked. My comment was about the transparency or the seemingly lack of transparency in the truth of the situation. What what did you say? I said he tried filler, it didn't work. His PR team said, blame it on this jaw incident, and that's okay, Zach. Like it's not about I mean, first of all, how you look, it's personal anyway. So people just need to stop talking about how other people look. Pretty much, regardless. But for me, it's about accountability and transparency and being okay with the fact that maybe you tried something that and filler's not permanent, and he his face looks more like old Zach than that period. And that's how filler acts as well, like someone who's very well versed in filler and talks and cosmetic treatments as I am. So clearly I'm not opposed to them. Yeah. And then these, you know, keyboard warriors, Facebook mom groups started attacking me. And I ignore 99% of the comments that come my way. But every once in a while, it's like, no, you're off base here. And somebody started talking about how this was really sensitive to him, and this was a horrible, tragic trauma for him, and at least he's a nice person and not disgusting like I am. And I'm like, well, first of all, slow your roll. I never said he was disgusting. Those are your words, not mine. You're putting all of the emphasis on how he looks versus the intended nature of my statement, which is the lack of transparency when you are a celebrity that has a PR team behind you trying to mold a public image.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Right.

Jarrod 11:47

So, what is it about my innocuous statement that has nothing to do with how somebody looks? How does that transcribe in someone's troll-like mind to then say, well, I need to attack this person who I don't know because I don't understand the context of the comment they made.

Robert 12:06

Yeah. Well, he's this this guy is attacking my precious Zach. So I need to stand at his defense for some reason.

Jarrod 12:13

And that's what I said. I was like, Your vicious defending of him against me is not gonna land you on his radar. You're not gonna be his next best friend or his girlfriend. And I almost feel like people will take to social media and fire themselves up in the hopes that their opinion or defense in the comments section strikes a chord with that celebrity, and then that is their end to that world, that is their entryway into the world.

Robert 12:47

I've known some people who have thought that way.

Jarrod 12:49

Interesting.

Robert 12:50

Yeah.

Jarrod 12:51

Tell me more.

Robert 12:52

Uh, someone who was so in love with a this specific boy band, with the belief that they would, if they only had the chance to meet them in person, would uh the the stars would align and they would fall in love with them just through proximity. Like, not knocking it, that's great. Like, if that's your fantasy, if that's your fairy tale, awesome. But I can see where that would some brains think that way.

Jarrod 13:19

Well, we also talk a lot about authenticity and creativity on this podcast. And I wonder if destruction, damage, vandalism, trolling, all of those topics under the same umbrella are sort of an antithesis to creativity. Because I think that we're also talking about people who make these comments or have this approach or this perception to life that, dare I say, are not highly intelligent people. Because highly intelligent people really don't behave that way, they don't need to, happy people don't behave that way. And you're also kind of in a medium that exists in the creativity realm. So if someone doesn't feel like they have the resources to exist in that realm, but they want to, again, that's gonna manifest itself in a destructive way.

Robert 14:19

I agree with that. I mean, that's why I believe AR, uh AI art, if you call it that, has been so prolific lately. You have these people who are not inherently creative or haven't embraced their creativity or discovered it, but they're more than willing to jump onto a program that collects, deconstructs, and regurgitates someone else's art for their own sake that they can then call their own.

Jarrod 14:48

Yeah, and I think also with social media specifically, it it caters to the masses, but in a more specific way, it caters to a lemming culture. Everybody needs to be on the same page, everybody needs to be on board because there is safety in that.

SPEAKER_05 15:04

Right.

Jarrod 15:05

And again, going back to a comment I made a little bit ago, the idea of fame and notoriety is like the ultimate I've left my mark on this world.

Robert 15:16

Even if it's just getting hearts and likes on a comment.

Jarrod 15:19

Yeah. So so then again, the question reframes itself is you know, do we just want to leave our mark? Do we just want to put our name on something so that the rest of the world knows that we existed? And in the interest of, again, not trying to be a politically biased voice in this podcast, sure. Look at somebody like Trump who's obsessed with putting his name on everything.

Robert 15:47

Yeah.

Jarrod 15:48

And anything. I think that the man is just so desperate to feel like he mattered or he existed, and he's been fortunate enough to be thrust into a realm of celebrity that allows him to do that in a very destructive way for many people.

Robert 16:09

And it's never enough.

Jarrod 16:10

It's well, that's the other thing. Trump universities, Trump Stakes, Trump Casino, Kennedy Center, base on the Mount Rushmore.

Robert 16:18

Yeah, and then putting gold gilded statues everywhere. Yeah, with the ballroom. Yeah, it's it's a lot.

Jarrod 16:25

And and it's never enough. It's never enough. And yeah, so I think that there's a lot of feeling powerless as a human being, and so you want to take again that feeling and pull it from inside of you to put it on the outside because it hurts.

Robert 16:43

It's weird to think, again, this is not a politically fueled statement, but it is weird to think that the most powerful person in our country clearly feels the most powerless.

Jarrod 16:59

That is I think the definition of irony.

Robert 17:04

Yeah, it's weird. And there's like I never thought of it that way, but it's weird.

Jarrod 17:08

Yeah. I mean, it is it is definitely a rabbit hole to go down. Um, and I think that it really captures and encapsulates the American experience. Because along with everything we've talked about with social media, social media also pushes, breeds, and enforces comparison.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Right.

Jarrod 17:32

And the quickest way to feel powerless, to feel less than, to feel robbed of your joy is to compare yourself to somebody else.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

Yeah.

Jarrod 17:41

Because we're all walking a different path. We all have a different journey, and our goals and our choices are a reflection, or dare I say, receipts of those choices. And that it's interesting that I think a lot of people don't realize that in their attempt to be viewed a certain way, they actually reveal what they are trying so desperately to hide to others.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

Yeah.

unknown 18:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Right.

Jarrod 18:09

Because we don't we don't look at people that vandalize and destroy things as being powerful.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Right.

Jarrod 18:15

Like physically, were they able to do something with this object that shouldn't have been done? Yes, but that doesn't make you a powerful person. That doesn't make you someone to look up to.

SPEAKER_05 18:26

Yeah.

Jarrod 18:27

Because I don't know anybody that that really looks up to vandals. Right. I mean, even graffiti, we were talking about how graffiti can be art. But if it's not your property, then it's not your right to deface that even with art. Because again, it's like, well, I know that this is going to be a great billboard for my Kilroy was here signature, right? But get a canvas and graffiti a canvas. Put your statement on something that belongs to you that you can then put out to the world. But then the fear is, well, if people aren't forced to acknowledge it, maybe they will choose not to acknowledge it.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

Yep.

Jarrod 19:11

And I think that terrifies people in a world where so many of us fear our own mortality.

Robert 19:17

Yeah, I can I can see where situations like that could be a way to democratize art. Like Keith Herring did that, where he was doing graffiti in the subways in in New York in the 80s. Um, but that was with the true intention of art. He did it with the intention of democratizing and allowing making art a public space rather than it limited to museums and where people couldn't afford to experience it. There's a line that's blurred there because he's also chasing celebrity in a way, but that's also very different than someone just standing on the side of a freeway and putting like tagging who knows what. Tagging is very different from what I see as art that has graffiti elements to it.

Jarrod 19:58

Well, let me ask you this with Keith Herring. If he wanted to democratize art, wouldn't there be a more impactful way to do that than graffiti? Like, what if he created artwork that was displayed or sold in a gallery that didn't charge people to access it? Or like Kid Rock, who you know, I don't really I'm not a big fan of Kid Rock, but in the world of $600 back row Madonna concert tickets, he was like, I I'm gonna sell tickets for like 12 bucks.

Robert 20:32

Right.

unknown 20:33

Yeah.

Jarrod 20:33

I mean, there he you said that there's a line. So I think, yes, maybe he did at one point in time want to democratize art, but he still vandalized a canvas that belongs to the people.

Robert 20:48

Yeah, he he eventually found that. But I I agree. I think initially it was just about visibility and like look at me. And then once he did get that attention, then he was able to take that step and and do what you just described. But even that, like, I love his art and I love Keith Herring, but I agree. Like I would be a little frustrated if I kept seeing that in a in a in that way. Um yeah, it's interesting.

Jarrod 21:11

And another point, too, is we talked in our effort episode that effort's important because it tells the rest of the world that they matter enough to you to put the effort into the exchange or the communication. Right. And people right now, I think, are really romanticizing the past and eras like the Gilded Age, right, where there was a mass respect for the property that belonged to the people. So before there was graffiti in the subways, before there was tagging, right, on billboards and signs and and canvases that belonged to the people, I think that it showed people that they did matter because people were being respectful of what belonged to the people. And then in the 60s and 70s, you had this sort of uprising against this institutional power and people felt powerful. And so, what did they do? They protested, they vandalized, they tried to do what they could to make a mark, to make a sound, so that they felt that their protest was valid to the ears and eyes of others. And then you enter the 80s era in New York City, where the subways were just littered with trash and graffiti, and uh Times Square was just obliterated by the mark of the many. And so when you go out into the public in contemporary society, you see how people have no respect for what belongs to the people. And then you get that sort of attitude like, well, people just suck. And then that energy feeds and perpetuates itself like the pink slime from Ghostbusters 2.

Robert 23:09

Oh my gosh, that terrified me as a kid. Um, it's interesting because you had you had mentioned it being a very uh like uh almost American experience. Yeah. Uh, because I I that that is not the case in Tokyo. Like modern Japan, you don't see any of that dirt and grime, you don't see any graffiti or tagging or any disrespect to public spaces like that at all. It's it's hard to find it, really.

Jarrod 23:37

For you as someone who has experienced Tokyo firsthand, what do you think that says about the culture? And what do you think that says to the people of that culture versus here in America?

Robert 23:49

Number one is respect. People have respect for themselves and for other people. Um, and I think the other thing too is is just a acknowledgement that it's shared space. There's no reason to uh destroy or uh uh try to draw attention to yourself in that way. Um, because I think, and this is a generalization, but I think that in general the people in Japan feel that they're one, taken care of by their government, but also two, they're seen by the people who they care about. They're seen by their family, they're seen by their friends, by their coworkers, they're respected by people because they respect people. Um, again, a generalization, but you can see it when you're walking around. It's a very different environment than it would be anywhere that I would find in the US, really. I mean, we live in a really nice place where we're not surrounded by uh graffiti or trash, but as soon as you cross that LA County line, you see it everywhere. Yeah.

Jarrod 24:56

Well, we don't even have to cross the LA County line. We just went to Anaheim, yeah. Disneyland.

Robert 25:01

Yeah.

Jarrod 25:01

And it's just um there's a dichotomy between I think what people inherently want in a culture and a society and what they're willing to give to that culture and society.

SPEAKER_03 25:15

Yeah.

Jarrod 25:16

Because the environment that we live in is a reflection of the the choices that the people who live in that environment make on a daily basis. And as we've mentioned before in this podcast, people really don't like having a mirror held up to them.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

Right.

Jarrod 25:32

So I think a lot of people today are kind of running from their conscience. They're running from that voice that tells them whether they're doing something right or wrong. So why do then why do people become destructive in an effort to sidestep that inner monologue?

Robert 25:54

I I don't know. I mean, I was telling you before too, I've never really had those inclinations to be destructive or to like break a neighbor's window or to throw rocks at a car or anything like that. And I don't think I've even egged a house or anything. Um, so I don't have an answer. I'm not goody two shoes, but I've just never thought of that stuff. Um, but in in what about you? Like, what are your thoughts? Have you had destructive moments that you're like, why did I do that?

Jarrod 26:23

Yes, I have. Um, and they've they've ranged from more prank-like situations to actual destruction. Um I never threw rocks at cars, but I remember one summer my stepbrother and I were really into water balloons. We were like 12 years old. Oh, yeah. We were really into water balloons, and we were just throwing them at each other and we were running around the neighborhood, and it was summertime. So most people had their windows closed and the air on, and there was this one house that had all their windows open.

Robert 27:00

Oh my god, Jared.

Jarrod 27:01

And the upstairs window was open, and I'm pretty sure it was like a bedroom window because there wasn't a solid light on. It was like the flashing glow of a TV. So clearly, these people are relaxing in bed on a hot summer night watching TV. And I threw a water balloon at the screen.

Robert 27:20

So you helped them on that hot summer night.

Jarrod 27:22

Yeah, I was just helping to cool them down. That's really nice. And of course, the water balloon exploded and all the water went through the screen. And the two of us just hysterically running away, laughing. That's amazing. Yeah. And and then what happened was is we ran across the street and we ran into our house. And then, like a minute later, there's a knock on the door. And my stepbrother and I were like, Oh my God, no way. How did they know? How did they know? And it was, and so my and my dad and my stepmom were actually smoking pot. This was when it was still illegal. Yeah. And so they're like putting everything in their box and shoving it under the couch. So funny. And spraying like air freshener because my dad looked through the peephole and it was a cop.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

Oh shit.

Jarrod 28:06

And I was like, that was that was so fast. Yeah. And so he answered the door. The the clearly obvious pot smell came up. It didn't even come up. So I think that like there, there's also a difference between law enforcement realizing that there's a like a drug influence situation that's bad versus someone just minding their own business at 8:30 on a summer night. Right. But he said, Oh, we were just checking to make sure that you guys were okay because we were just driving down the street and we saw two shadowy figures run across the street and into your house. And they thought that that my stepbrother and I were adults who were like, I guess, funny games, somebody. Yeah. Um, yeah, it was really bizarre. And and that's crazy. Something like that actually happened to my stepmom years later after my dad and my stepmom were divorced. I don't know if you remember when she was living in that townhouse, and um, there was like helicopters and police everywhere. And um she ran upstairs and oh no, what I'm trying to remember exactly how it happened. So there was a guy who was on the run from the police, and he like ran down the hill that was her that led into her backyard, and she had her door unlocked, and he ran into the house. Uh, and she was in there, and he just busted in through the back door trying to escape the cops, ran through the house and out the front door. And she was like, fuck.

Robert 29:39

I don't remember that.

Jarrod 29:41

She ran upstairs and grabbed her gun because it was just in that moment, it was chaos. Well, who knows? Not only because of this guy just running through her house like Gladys from weapons. Yeah, that's crazy. But the chaos of all the police cars and the helicopters and the sirens in her neighborhood, which was a very small cul-de-sac neighborhood, right? And then the police come pounding on her door and she opens the door holding a gun that she got for self-defense. But, you know, as a police officer, you don't know who lives there. You don't know what the situation is. You just see, you know, so the whole thing was just so incredibly chaotic and crazy. But my experience in that moment with the cops knocking on the door, they had no idea that we had thrown a balloon and into someone's open window. Yeah. Um, but it scared me so much that I was like, no, I can't do that.

Robert 30:35

That's that's more of a prank, I think.

Jarrod 30:36

That's more of a prank. Now, the other side where I truly was destructive was this period in my life when I would go putt-putt golfing, miniature golfing.

Robert 30:48

Yeah, you were pretty into it.

Jarrod 30:49

And and every once in a while along the course, I would take my putter and I would just knock one of the light bulbs out. Because you know how the light bulbs are encased in those plastic, like upside-down flowers.

Robert 31:02

To light the sidewalk at night to make sure people don't hurt themselves.

Jarrod 31:05

And I was just like, what would happen if, and then before I knew it, I was breaking the light bulb. And ultimately, I think it was just an intrusive thought. One. And as I've gotten older, I realize what intrusive thoughts are and they don't bother me and they don't have to actually be manifested. But I if I try to think about why I did that, I think it was one trying to be funny in front of my friends, right? Like, oh, watch me do this. But ultimately, the attempts that I was making to get noticed were destructive because looking back, I lived a life of oppression and feeling powerless. And here was a moment where I could do something destructive. And there was that immediate gratification of seeing it happen in front of my eyes and channeling that negative energy that I was holding on inside of myself to the outside. Like, oh my God, I can't believe you did that. And now I think, well, poor the poor guy that had to go and like sweep that up. Or what if there was a kid that got cut on the glass? Uh, you know, it's it in the at in the moment it was small, and maybe it still is kind of a small thing, but I'm thinking of it in a larger context now. And and then I decided, well, that's not for me. Like, I can't do that. And then you remember our friend's boyfriend who was obsessed with me.

Robert 32:34

Yeah, he did love you.

Jarrod 32:35

Like, saw because I bent over and I was wearing, I wore like male thongs as underwear, right?

Robert 32:43

Because I was, you know, it's like a thong G string thing. Yeah, yeah.

Jarrod 32:47

And I had I bent over and kind of exposed the whale tail. And he was like, Whoa, Jared, what are you wearing? And I was like, Oh, this is it. And then he went out and bought that underwear and started wearing it.

Robert 32:58

A straight man, by the way.

Jarrod 32:59

Yes, yeah, yeah.

Robert 33:00

And so funny.

Jarrod 33:01

Yeah. So then I was just like, Oh, what is this power that I have over this person? And so we remember we went put put golfing at that, that, the castle place arcaded. I never remember what it's called. Yeah. I can never remember what it was called, but I mean, I've been going there since I was a kid, right? So then I was like, well, let me see how I can wield this power. And I don't even remember his name, but I was like, hey, so and so, take your golf club and just knock off one of those lights. And he did it. And then he kept doing it. And at first I was like, haha, that was funny. And then I was like, wow, that's pretty cool. I could get somebody to do something. And then I was like, uh, okay, you need to stop.

Robert 33:41

At that point, he was just trying to impress you.

Jarrod 33:44

And maybe that's what it all comes down to, but like I said, in a very corrupted way. People are just trying to impress others and leave their mark.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

Yeah.

Jarrod 33:53

And then there's also the saying, like, leave it better than you found it.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

Right.

Jarrod 33:57

Why do some people want to leave their mark in a destructive way? And then some people want to leave it better than they found it.

Robert 34:06

Well, that's what I was thinking before when it comes to like people going to the beach and then leaving all their trash everywhere.

Jarrod 34:13

Yeah. Or sort of a passive uh destruction, I think, is what you refer to.

Robert 34:18

You know better than that. Yeah. Yeah. You came to this place, there wasn't trash when you arrived, so don't leave it all there.

Jarrod 34:23

Maybe that's just also lazy. Like some destruction is prank-like, some destruction is just laziness, or I'm better than that. I'm better than having to clean up after myself.

Robert 34:34

Well, it's like people leaving their shopping carts in uh parking spots. Let's talk about that for a minute. Rather than taking them back to the return.

Jarrod 34:41

And sometimes that's destructive, even though I don't think the intention is to destroy, but somebody doesn't see it and they pull into a space and they hit it with their car, or it starts rolling and rolls into a parked car and scratches it.

Robert 34:53

But I think it's a combination of laziness and taking space, entitlement.

Jarrod 34:58

Oh, yeah. Thank you, Katy Perry. Yeah. Let's all take up space.

Robert 35:03

In space? In space you can stay in space, girl.

Jarrod 35:05

Just taking up space. We were making space. Okay, first of all, girl, space was created by the universe.

Robert 35:11

Oh my god, wait. Sorry. Did you see that video of Katy Perry in her recent concert when she's in this giant, like inflatable bubble? No. She it's just like those pool bubbles that you can like walk in. Uh-huh. And she was in one and stage dived essentially in it. And she couldn't get back to the stage because her fans kept pushing her back toward the back of the theater.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

So she's screaming at them, like, take me back, take me back. It was so good. She's in there like waving her arms, like, stop it.

Jarrod 35:45

Someone stop the show. You have to show me, you have to find that and show it to me.

Robert 35:50

So funny. It's like such a big like I don't dislike Katie Perrin.

Jarrod 35:53

No, I don't. I I don't. I mean, I think she had an airhead moment with the space thing.

Robert 35:58

But I just think it's so funny to like picture this poor little girl just being moved around completely.

Jarrod 36:04

Fuck around and find out.

Robert 36:05

Seriously, like completely backfired on her.

Jarrod 36:08

Yeah.

Robert 36:08

So funny.

Jarrod 36:10

Yeah. So I I think that our initial question of, you know, why are humans so destructive? It was hard to answer that because I I do believe now that humans are not inherently destructive. But from the time our consciousness is, we are made aware of our consciousness, we deal with a barrage of external stimuli that is never-ending and very hard to process. Yeah. And we are left holding on to not our sick in that capacity, but the world's sick. You know, let's say you got to sit with your own sick. You just gotta process shit.

Robert 36:49

You're always inundated with it.

Jarrod 36:50

You're always inundated with it. And I think people get to a point where it bubbles over and they have to get it out, right? I mean, this is kind of a really tragic analogy, but it's like people who hurt themselves like cutters, right? Like you just have this emotional turmoil that's sitting inside, eating away at your joy, your energy, your resources, and you have to do something physical and tangible to put it on the outside of yourself. So in a world where you know we slap fake joy on everything, people don't process. And if you don't process, you don't heal. And if you don't heal, you go out and you hurt. Whether it's physical vandalism or emotional damage or um trolling people on social media.

Robert 37:43

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. It's probably why social media is so rampant and so widely adopted in the way that it is, because so many people are hurting in that way and have to get it out somehow. And they don't know how to create art and they don't know how to journal, they don't know how to be mindful, they don't know how to meditate. All of these things that some of us have have been able to or or or are in a uh privileged enough space to be able to do for ourselves or to avoid of afford therapy. Um, and instead uh sit in that fester as we perceived the world to get worse and worse and worse through politics and global warming and everything. Um I might want to burn down that 7-Eleven.

Jarrod 38:32

Well, and it's also for lack of a better word, it's it's taboo to have a moment where you say, I'm hurting and I need help. Yeah. Because that then is translated into vulnerability or weakness weakness. Yes. And vulnerability is is not weakness, and I think we've talked about that. Uh so I think that it, you know, there people like, let's normalize, blah, blah, blah. Let's normalize being human. Right. And everything that being human encapsulates, which is not a hundred percent happiness, joy, rainbows, and gumdrops and lollipops all the time. It's okay to say, I am dealing with something that I can't process. I am hurting and I need help to heal. Yeah. Those moments to me are what makes make us as human beings the strongest version of ourselves. It's easy to go and knock out a light bulb at a miniature golf set. It's easy to carve your initials into something. It's easy to graffiti a piece of public property. It's not easy to turn that mirror around on yourself and fix the parts that are hurting you. Yeah. And and and I mean, and in turn, is that almost not like an internal vandalism? If you just keep allowing yourself to be inundated with all of this hurt and confusion and chaos that the world provides us without finding a space where you can safely process it and heal from the trauma that it creates. Right. So you just you end up destroying other things and in the process, I believe, lead a self-destructive life. You you kind of become a victim of your own circumstances and you feel powerless and you have that perception of, well, everything is happening to me. Right. Rather than, okay, I may need help recognizing the resources that I have, but I have resources that allow me to process this, that allow me to heal from this and allow me to go out into the world and leave it better than I found it.

Robert 40:46

I agree with all of that. And it makes me wonder how people in situations that could be perceived as privileged still make poor decisions like that. So, for instance, someone who lives in Orange County probably has access to a lot of money or at least a lot of care and attention, and then ends up setting fire to acres of Orange County.

Jarrod 41:10

Yeah, I mean, let's talk about that because it's public. And it also happened right in our backyard. Yeah, we just saw so one of the real housewives of Orange County, her son and some of his friends were lighting, I guess, leftover firecrackers from the Fourth of July, along with rolls of toilet paper in a field, and the field caught on fire, and seven acres burned.

Robert 41:37

Thankfully, it was just seven because it could have gone real fast. It was hot out.

Jarrod 41:41

There's it's hot, and we live in an area that has more vegetation per square foot than Central Park. And I guess because no one was hurt and no actual property was damaged, no arrests were made, and there's no legal consequences. Or that could also be the result of these highly privileged people paying the situation off. And the statement released by this housewife was well, they're gonna take a fire safety class and there are gonna be f consequences in the family for what they did.

Robert 42:19

You're paraphrasing, but essentially just that. Yeah. Yeah.

Jarrod 42:23

And, you know, as somebody who lives in this area, you and I have worked very hard to live the life that we live. And for that fire to be as close as it was to our house, I mean, we looked out, we're lying in bed, looking out one of our bedroom windows, and there's this jumbo jet flying overhead, yeah, taking up all of the space in the window with its belly. Like the fire was extremely close. And it was a moment where it's like, why should everything that we've worked for be put on the line because this board-privileged kid is making bad choices and now is not gonna learn from those because there's gonna be no consequences. And to be really blunt, if it were some kid who is not white, they'd be in jail for it.

Robert 43:18

Yeah, any color but white, really.

Jarrod 43:20

Exactly. And I like living in the area that we live in because there's not a lot of graffiti, there is a real strong sense of community. And by the way, this kid doesn't even live in our community, he lives in a neighboring community and then comes into our community and puts it at risk. And that just really rubbed me the wrong way. Sure. Now, do I think that this kid is bad? No, no, but does he have the potential to become bad by not being forced to be mindful and aware of the consequences of his actions because his parents are making bad choices and their desperate attempt to validate their parenting style, which is let's just make sure that our kids never have to suffer from anything.

Robert 44:06

Right. Well, and their own, they don't want their kids to suffer for what they perceive to be their own bad decision making. She is terrified of. About her kid feeling an ounce of sadness surrounding her divorce and separation from her husband. Terrified by it, where she can't have a conversation without breaking down in front of her kid. And it's like, if you can't do this, just calm down and get a therapist. Because your kid is clearly asking for help in more ways than one. You need to do something. And if you can't, you need to find someone who can. It's just completely inappropriate.

Jarrod 44:41

Being that kind of parent that you just mentioned would, in my opinion, garner so much more respect for her as a public figure.

Robert 44:51

Right.

Jarrod 44:51

Who's being accountable and responsible, not just for the choices that she's made that have shaped the decision-making process of her child, but also passing that lesson and experience on to her child rather than using her privilege and her public figure persona to get her kid, quote unquote, out of trouble.

Robert 45:14

Can you imagine? Like there are equitable punishments. Like he shouldn't go to prison. It's none of that. But it's like, can you imagine if she actually stood up and made a statement? You said, you know, what he did was extremely wrong. It's inappropriate, and he needs to take accountability for it. So not only will he be taking fire safety, but he will have no car. He will have no allowance. He will not be leaving this house. And he will also be doing 600 hours of community service.

Jarrod 45:39

That's great. But also to the car point, he was also the season opened with him getting arrested for going 104 miles per hour in his car.

SPEAKER_05 45:50

Yeah.

Jarrod 45:50

So he's on a bad path. He's on the cusp, right? Of yes, being on a very bad path. He's obviously making choices that are mindless, destructive, and dangerous to other innocent people who are simply just trying to live their lives.

Robert 46:07

Yeah. And and our our environment, our community. Like, yeah, people may not have died, but how many animals died in that seven acres of burned like land? It's just, it's it's inappropriate that he that nothing's happening because of it.

Jarrod 46:23

I I agree. And I think that this is an opportunity for her as a parent to be able to do exactly what we are trying to address in this episode, which is to say to your child, look, you are not inherently a bad person. You are not inherently a destructive person. Clearly, some of the choices and decisions that your father and I have made are affecting you and negatively impacting your decision-making process. We need to sit down and flush this out. Yeah. Like with glory from the first couple seasons of the Orange County Housewives. She's like, I need to step away from the cameras because my child is hurting. Yeah. And I need to help him heal. I need to help him process. I need to help him recognize the error of his ways so that he doesn't turn into an awful person. And now the juggernaut of the Housewife franchise has created such a bubble of entitlement and delusion and corruption that it's fodder for the cameras rather than a true learning experience. So rather than uh living your life and having the cameras capture your life as it happens, you are now using, if not creating, circumstances purely for the camera, which is in and of itself inauthentic and inorganic.

Robert 47:44

Well, they're so terrified that it's going to be taken away from them.

Jarrod 47:47

Right.

Robert 47:48

Because as soon as it is, they're not valuable.

Jarrod 47:51

And that's the problem that I have with the Housewife franchise and most reality TV shows of the like, is that it is they're casting people that have really bent moral compasses and they are depicting a way of life that represents everything that's broken and wrong with our society, and then romanticizing it and putting it out there for consumption that this is something, this is a life you should aspire to simply because they live in multi-million dollar houses and they drive hundred thousand dollar cars and they can drop four thousand dollars at the mall when they go shopping. But those are all vapid goals, those have nothing to do with who you are as a person and what your character is and how you contribute to society as a whole, and in fact, has kind of put on blast the whole representation of that being the complete opposite of who these people really are. Right. I you know, and even like with Shannon Bador and Heather McDonald, you know, doing it.

Robert 49:02

Yeah, so stupid.

Jarrod 49:03

It's like, come on, first of all, you're not that important. Right. And second of all, no one is taking you that seriously. You you are you are not changing the world. You are providing court jester-like entertainment for the masses. You need to get over yourself.

Robert 49:20

Yeah, you are a well-dressed clown.

Jarrod 49:22

She should have taken her DUI as seriously as she took the joke that Heather McDonald did about her, which we all watch and see. And it was funny to all of us because we know exactly what Heather was communicating in that joke.

Robert 49:38

And and it was clearly blown out of proportion for the sake of a joke. Right. Like she was falling over an Amazon package or falling into the pool. Like the joke is the action.

SPEAKER_02 49:48

Whoa. Yeah. Whoa. Whoa.

Robert 49:49

It's not Heather or Shannon. It's not Shannon specifically, but we know that that's what she's talking about.

Jarrod 49:56

Well, and after a certain point in time, these women become caricatures of themselves. Once they get familiar enough, they secure their contracts for future seasons, they they start doing what they need to for the cameras.

Robert 50:11

They have their catchphrases, they have their their little quips and the things that they say and do.

Jarrod 50:17

And most importantly, they have their their sponsorship and affiliate deals. Yeah. So it's all about cash. And it's and it's if you have you shouldn't even need that. First of all, if you are affluent and privileged enough to be on the show in the first place, you shouldn't need the show to provide that affluence and privilege for you.

Robert 50:39

Well, we know that that's not the case.

Jarrod 50:41

Right. So I think this is I really enjoyed the way that this initial question has evolved and the sort of redirect that we've discovered in this episode. And um, I hope that it gives our listeners a lot to think about as well. It's it's not a statement episode. It is, I think, an episode riddled with a ton of human experience questions. Yeah. And really saying, you know what, it might be difficult, but it's okay to look in the mirror and say, maybe I don't like this about myself, because we all have the power to change what we don't like about ourselves, as long as we're given the space and the opportunity to feel safe to do that. So on that note, I I think we can wrap this episode. Yeah. Thanks for listening, as always, and we will see you next Tuesday.