Why Is Summer House So Overcast?

We promised that we wouldn't fall into the trap of becoming the next gay Bravo commentary podcast, but the drama is RIPE this season on Summer House. With the drama between stars Amanda Batula and West Wilson, and it's completely imploded following Amanda’s separation from Kyle Cooke. Their messy romance, conflicting timelines, and explosive reunion confrontations led to West's exit from the show and caused a massive rift within the cast.
And it's delicious. We chat about why West is (and has been) a problem on the show, we try to psychoanalyze Amanda's poor decision-making, and we discuss why a show that "should be fun" is sometimes just tragic.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Hey babe. Hi. Uh today we are going to talk about your most recent obsession that I've actually I've watched vicariously, but I've enjoyed watching you watch, if that makes sense. What are we talking about today?

SPEAKER_00 0:30

What everybody is obsessing over the uh West Amanda Kyle Triangle scandal from Summer House.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

It's it's ridiculousness at its best.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

It really is. And just to be clear, this is not a recap episode.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Right.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

This is us diving into a radical pop culture moment that has so many different angles. And I I need to process it out somehow because it has been really intense.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Yeah. I've been capturing it um secondhand, both by questions that I've asked you as you have it on, but also from what I hear on your Instagram algorithm, is people are talking about it nonstop. Yeah. And they're showing clips and stuff has been released or uh leaked. Leaked. Yeah, thank you. So it's a whole bunch of crazy. So I I knowing very little about it, I'm eager to hear what you've got to say about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Well, first, as you and I have talked about, I think we've gotten to the point where reality TV is heavily produced. I do think it is scripted, and I think these people sign up for that. Right. Um, I do think that there can be um organic moments in these TV shows that the producers then run with. And I think it's a little bit of both, but what I'm really most interested in discussing and processing out is why do these people make decisions that make absolutely no sense?

SPEAKER_01 2:17

I I don't get it.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

It's very bizarre.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

I do think that when you are working with people in close quarters um and in the nature of this show, I I mean, you can develop feelings for people. I've had work crushes.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

I've never had relationships or hookups with people that I've worked with because I come from the old school mindset that you don't shit where you eat.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

But there I've definitely worked with people where I'm excited to see them every day. And that's like male and female co-workers.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

That's pretty that's typical.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Yeah, there's just energy that I naturally gravitate towards and energy that makes me feel good during my day. But this is something that has gone completely awry. Yeah. So the just to kind of like catch you up and our listeners up to speed who aren't watching this before we start to dissect the human nature behind these bizarre actions. So we have a couple, Kyle and Amanda, who have been together for the length of the show. Uh, they were they were a couple, and then for the first season, Kyle broke up with Amanda because he wanted to go into the summer and this experience single. And I think by second season, they then had gotten back together. And I, from the outside, feel like it's been a pretty strong relationship with normal ups and downs. And I think being in a public space, you are sort of a target for predatory advances from other people. And there have been rumors and talk that Kyle has overstepped boundaries in the relationship, but not actually had an affair, like hanging out with people until six o'clock in the morning at after-hour parties or making out with a girl at a club. You know, it every relationship has its own parameters and boundaries in terms of what's appropriate. But this was hurtful behavior to Amanda. But they eventually worked through it, they got over it, they got married, and I, you know, I kind of look at them as sort of like the patriarch and matriarch of the Summerhouse clan.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yeah, they are they they are mom and dad.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Yeah. Yeah. And I like both of them. I like both of them together. I it kind of hurts my heart a little bit when I see them going through discourse or when I see them getting upset. There's also a tenure difference between them, which sometimes doesn't mean anything and sometimes can mean something because you've got two people from two different generations raised under two different roofs, coming at the same relationship with two different perspectives and expectations.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

I forget that there's a ten-year difference because I have seen Kyle act very much not his age moments. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

And Amanda also acting older than her age, too. Um but I have always enjoyed watching them on the show as cast members and as a couple. It's sort of like uh, you know, it I don't know, it's always been a little bit of like a relationship safe space for me to watch.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

I've seen them as I've watched them, I've seen them as as the consistent, relatively stable relationship that kind of grounds a bit of that show that feels very ungrounded at times.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

I agree with that. And and that's where the enjoyment of watching them as a couple comes from for me.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Um now the main gripe that I've witnessed in their relationship over the years is that Kyle is a party boy. He likes to go out, he likes to be on the scene, he likes to have a good time. I think at this point, anybody who watches Summer House knows that not every cast member, but a huge portion of the cast members definitely imbibe not just in alcohol but in recreational drugs as well. That means later nights, harder mornings, and sometimes questionable decisions.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

But they've always managed to work it out and they've always managed to come back to each other, and they've always had the support of the other cast members encouraging them and in their relationship.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

That's true. I don't think there have been many moments where I've seen cast members try to split them up. Or if they do, it's just in a very defensive moment where either Kyle or Amanda have called out that person and they're like, uh-uh, no, you guys are awful. Right. You have a terrible relationship, and then they start spouting off all the rumors and the things that we already know Kyle to not be guilty of, but to be a bit of a hedonist too.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

Correct. Yeah. I think that's a really great way to put it. And honestly, the only thing that I've really experienced in line with that has been this last season with Sierra, who I think that from the outside with no contacts, looks like someone who is coming in and encouraging Amanda to leave Kyle. The way that I see it watching these characters for as long as I have is Sierra acting as a friend and doing what any friend would do, which is to try to support her friend and making a decision that leads to happiness.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Not necessarily breaking up with Kyle, but doing what needs to be done, even if that means taking a break so that you can know what it is that you're actually fighting for again. So I looked at it as a supportive gesture, not as a meddling gesture, or like in the real housewives of Beverly Hills, sometimes I feel like Sutton is constantly pushing for characters to separate or divorce because she's the single girl and she wants everybody else to be in the same boat that she's in, or, you know, that sort of like high school playground mentality where if one person in the friend group is doing something, then they all have to do it because that's what you do. I don't see that in the Summer House. And it's one of the reasons why I also really enjoy Summer House as a show because I think it has over the years been truer to its intentional tone of just having a good time. Yeah. And we've seen a lot of relationship drama play out in the house with Carl. He's a former fuckboy and he's been through his ups and downs with alcohol and substance abuse. He's had a relationship and was engaged to Lindsay and has also kind of messed around with a few other female cast members.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Um, but all in all, it's just watching these people have a good time and deal with the things that life throws at them for the age that they're at and and what they're being filmed to do.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

So a couple seasons ago, I think three seasons ago, enter the character of West. It is West. West, like the direction. Right. Um, I think that he is a weasel. I think that he is a performative douchebag who is a servant to the thirst of the spotlight and is way too into the flavor of his own Kool-Aid. And after his first season, Paige, who was not on the show this season, called him out for it on the reunion. He was just sort of tone-deaf to what was going on. And this was the beginning of a lot of tumultuous uh situations with relationships with like Carl and Lindsay and Kyle and Amanda's issues starting to come to a head and Jesse dealing with a possible cancer relapse scare. And it was the show. And as Paige put it, if I remember correctly, they're living their lives and the cameras are there to capture it. But with West, he's creating a life for the camera to capture. And he really has always come across as somebody that is just super thirsty and just clamoring for the spotlight. He's always on. He's always got to be the guy with like the kooky outfits and the crazy facial expressions. And his first season, he messed around with and dated uh Ciara and Sierra. And and then after they stopped filming, he stopped seeing her. He made a lot of public statements about their relationship that was hurtful to Sierra, and it all came out in the reunion. So last season, he kind of came in with his tail between his legs. Sierra didn't want to have anything to do with him. A lot of the girls, if not all the girls, were on Sierra's side. And then this last season, he spent all of his time trying to get back into the good graces of Sierra and managed to do that. They made out, they had he called it ear play, and he he well, he was nibbling on her ear.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

So that that yeah, nothing kinky or fetishy that I'm aware of.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

And um he got back into her good graces, and as soon as he did, her guard went down, and then he went in again. And then when she wasn't around, he was talking about how I don't have any intention to be a boyfriend. To Sierra. Correct.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

And as we are, the audience starting to figure out with timelines and receipts, he had a girlfriend. He also was getting very close to Amanda. And the question is, was there overlap in her separation from Kyle and when they started seeing each other? The footage would suggest that there is. And I'm not saying that one is right and one is wrong, but it's not West's responsibility to maintain Amanda's boundaries and her relationship. However, he ingratiated himself with Kyle, and Kyle considered him a best friend. Right. And that to me is that's malicious intent. That's that's a that's zero boundary. I mean, if things didn't work out with him and Sierra and he wants to be friends with Sierra, that's fine. Some people say ex-boyfriends are off limits. I I mean, I haven't been in a situation where that's really come up. So I don't know that I have really thought about an opinion either way, but I do think that West's pursual of Amanda was definitely with agenda and with malicious intent. So they stopped filming, they put out a statement after speculation that yes, they are together, they're confirming their relationship, and the shit hit the fan.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Now that's the I have a couple questions. That's this most recent season. Correct. The first season where he started uh we'll say getting romantic with Sierra. Yes. Do I I I feel like I remember something where he was romantic with her and kind of cutesy and flirty and they were having all these great times, but part of her frustration with him, Sierra's frustration with West, was that the second they were out of the house during the week, he never called her, he never tried to get together with her, they never tried to go out on dates. It was only in the house with the cameras rolling that he gave any interest to her.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

It's interesting because when you say that, I don't know, I can't remember if that was the case. What's funny is that that was the situation when Paige and Carl first started hooking up in the house.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

That's what I'm thinking of. Sorry. Okay, okay. Yes. Ignore what I said. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

In Carl's fuck boy days. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, he was there. He knew he'd have Paige there, and then during the week when they were back in the city, he'd never reached out or tried to do anything with her. And I think that's why their relationship completely failed to launch because Paige is a very smart girl. Right. She saw that red flag a mile away and was like, nope, I'm dipping out before I catch anything.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Right. Um, okay, and then I have another question. Yeah. So um when he was romantic with Sierra and then wasn't because got called out on it or just she was unhappy with it.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

He got what he needed from the situation and then was capitalizing on that so that he could go out and ride the wave of the show and his profound popularity.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Okay. And then when he came when they came back together, so to speak, that was not this most recent season, but the season before?

SPEAKER_00 15:28

No, the season before she was not letting him back in. Okay. They were still on the outs, he was trying, she didn't want to have anything to do with it.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

She started to soften up at the beginning of this season. Of this season that just wrapped.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

So a whole summer passes where she's pissed off with him and not having anything to do with him. Correct. Got it. Okay. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

And and it's also been said that West is the kind of person that wants to be perceived as a good time guy and a nice guy. I can see that. And I think a lot of his quest in mending that that fence uh with Sierra was about uh getting back into the good graces, not with Sierra, but with the audience.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Trying to secure his position in the house, trying to become a mainstay in the house. Because we also saw this play out with Luke and Sierra, who I could not stand. I mean, first Luke messed around with Hannah, then he messed around with Sierra, and he was the one that was always playing the guitar. He was the model, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:28

He was always shirtless.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

I I remember that.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Just, I mean, for me, he was just kind of vapid. Yeah. Um, but like West makes him look like a good guy.

SPEAKER_01 16:44

I West gives very much like golden retriever energy that I've been seeing lately, where it's just like wanting to please and over the top and kind of ridiculous in that like quest to be loved and liked.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Yeah, the difference is that a golden retriever's motive and agenda is much more pure than West's. Yeah. He has an MO. He wants to be famous. Right. He got this opportunity to be on this platform. And in trying to manipulate and capitalize on that, I think he he had the exact opposite effect. I mean, I think he's one of the most hated guys on social media and in the Bravo network right now.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

I I think so.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

So it's also come out that he, I mean, I don't know anybody that isn't in the spotlight or in the Bravo universe that in the party scene isn't dabbling. Like for some reason, cocaine has become extremely popular again.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Which is surprising because I feel like it's more dangerous now than it ever was.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

I think so. Yeah. I mean, but you know, maybe people also have testing strips too. I mean, they test, I mean, the thing with Coke is fentanyl being put in it, right? Right. Um, so you know, people can test for that, but regardless, it just shows a pattern of reckless and cavalier behavior. And I think that we've seen just a tremendous amount of collateral damage. He's lied to a lot of people. We just finished the reunion um tomorrow on Peacock is sort of like the aftermath episode, a bonus episode of that and what's happening.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

Is that post-reunion? Yes. Have they ever done anything like that before?

SPEAKER_00 18:34

I not like a whole episode. Okay. I think they've like tacked on an extra like five or ten minutes at the end of the last reunion episode for one of the housewife franchises because you know, something came up and they were like, oh, we gotta pick the cameras back up again for this. So because they filmed the reunion just a couple months before they start filming the following season. Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

And do you think it's because so much shit has come out both before the reunion and as the reunion has played out, more and more is either coming out or people are talking about it more? What okay?

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Yeah, I think as more information comes out, then people become more obsessed with finding out what is going on, like what's what's the real deal. And just for the record, I am team Kyle. I think Amanda fucked up and her stock plummeted. Yeah. But I think the real villain in this story is West because his motives were malicious and self-serving. And I don't think he cares about Amanda. And Lindsay called him out on the reunion. And it's like, you will do whatever it is you need to do to climb that ladder and chase that clout because that's the only thing that's important to him. And and I agree with her.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

I really hope he doesn't come back because as somebody who has enjoyed the Summer House show from season one, I'm not interested in tuning in and watching this douchebag.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

I can't imagine that he would come back. Um it's different from Housewives to me because I think that Housewives as a franchise, regardless of the individual like location franchise just as a whole, I think loves uh those truly uh tragic, climac uh over-the-top situations, right? Like the whole the the Erica Jane Ness of it.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Oh my god, that's a whole other situation.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Uh the woman from Salt Lake City who was stealing money from old women.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Like Oh, yeah. Well, and Bravo and Andy Cohen have made it totally clear that they will never have anything to do with Genshaw again. Right. The Bravo universe is close to her, and rightfully so because what she did was sickening. She and she just didn't have as much money as the Kardashians do to pay her way out of the state. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

And and I think with Housewives, they'll they'll use that to the benefit of the show and they'll promote it, and they will bring those people back who, at some according to some people, could be seen as villains, right? Like Erica could have been a villain in that situation, but it helped the show, it helped her cause, and she eventually grew out of it. I this is the first time because I've watched this show with you the whole show. I think the only one I haven't watched is this last season. Um and this is the first time, even without watching it, that I have felt a significant shift in the dynamic of the show. Yes. Um that to your point earlier, I I feel like damages the show as a whole because it really it's one of the only Bravo shows that I do enjoy watching because it's it is just supposed to be fun. They're ridiculous, the boys are stupid, they're hot, the girls are silly and fun, real stuff happens to them. Yeah, but we also watch them enjoy this brief moment every weekend to just have summer and embody summer and and drama and love and romance and ridiculousness uh aside, we enjoy it, or because of it.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

I agree. The core of this show and what makes this show work is the friend group and the friendships that these people have. And that has been fractured because of this one selfishly motivated D bag.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

I I have another question for you. Yes. Why do you you think, and maybe that's the answer, why is Summer House so much more successful? Or why do you think you enjoy it more than say Winter House?

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Um it's interesting. Well, Winter House is not the same cast. It was a combination of Summer House and other shows. Um and I enjoyed watching it and probably would watch it again, but you know, I'm a purist. I don't like nuts in my brownies. Like I want my summer house as my summer house. We're always going to have new cast members come in and come out, but the core group itself has evolved very little. Yeah. Um, there are a lot of mainstay characters, and you know, after 10 years, I don't know these people because I only watch them on a show, but I know the character that they deliver for the camera. And that familiarity breeds a sense of safety when I sit down to watch. And because I feel like their friendship is more organic than, say, the housewives that are thrown together. I mean, they audition, they're not always friends before they come onto the show. Right. They're put in these situations together. Housewives franchises are, to me, very formulaic, extremely produced, extremely scripted, and it's the same shit season after season after season. And these housewives are extremely privileged people who are pretending to live miserable lives for the sake of renewing their contract so they can get their affiliate deals and their sponsorships. Yeah. Whereas Summer House started as a true group of friends who summer housed together before the cameras even came into their lives. And I think that has continued to carry through. And so the challenges that we see with the Summer House cast is, like I said earlier, life being thrown at them. They're living their life as friends, and the cameras are there to capture it. Housewives, I think, is a little bit of an antiquated franchise, and they're desperately trying to maintain relevancy through conflict and drama because the base camp audience for these shows, that's what they respond to. Right. So, and it's why I only watch like three of the franchises now. And even still, some of them I'm like, Jesus, like, come on. Like, first of all, some of these people don't need the platform because these are not aspirational lives. These are women who have created a bubble for themselves and just have blinders on to the real world. And and Bravo really loves their stable of criminals. Like every franchise has at least one. Yeah, at least one, if not two. And now they're all frickin' DJs, too, which is ridiculous. I'd be Meredith Marks being a DJ. Like, I've like every once in a while, something will pop up on my Instagram feed with her DJing, and I'm like, what is she even doing?

SPEAKER_01 25:49

I don't need to watch that scarecrow pressing play on her iPad.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Exactly. And pretending to push buttons and like silly. DJing is so bizarre to me. It's you have to have a passion for it. Like I followed this one guy on Instagram Party Pupils, and he's the one that's remixing all of the yacht rock music into yacht house.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

That's a DJ. Yeah. He's creating something and then he's sharing it with the world because that's his passion. Right. These women are just grabbing at whatever iron they can stick in the fire to see if it gets hot enough to earn them money.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

And it's trite and it's boring.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

It's for me, it's it's when all the housewives were recording their own music. Now they've discovered an easy, even easier way to pretend like they're doing something valid.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Um, and I think it's I think it's gross too.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Yeah. Summer House, despite Kyle being a DJ, um you know, Kyle, I think that makes a little bit more sense to me, too, because he's a party boy. He's out at the clubs. That's his scene. That's his scene. Totally makes sense. So so now here we are. Kyle and Amanda have separated. Uh, I believe they filed for divorce. Oh, really? I'm not sure on on that yet. But um, and then at the reunion, like Andy even asked them, Are you guys on beta blockers? Because it was just like dead. But Wes looked like he had the coke sweats to me.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

When Andy's asking that, it's it's of Amanda and Wes. Amanda and Wes.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

So Amanda was just very and you know, and beta blockers don't kill your personality, they don't anesthetize you. What they do is they eliminate the physical effects of anxiety. And when your body stops feeling the physical effects, your mind perceives that as being out of the danger zone. This is probably more like Valium or out of Anzanax, some kind of benzo. West was just chewing on his lips the whole time and sweating like crazy. And there have been pictures floating around the internet of him doing bumps at clubs. And I mean, whatever, more power to you. Like I've had my heyday too, right? Like it's not, it's it's not the drug that's the issue. It's the behavior of the person doing the drug and why you're doing the drug. And, you know, Wes just has really bad behavior. He's got bad manners, he's got a a broken moral compass and has fractured a friend group to the point where his best friend Jesse during the reunion was in tears because of the emotional fallout that all of this has caused. And that's sad. It is really sad, and I feel for Jesse. Well, and they were really good friends. And, you know, I listen, you are the company you keep. And I think that Jesse ultimately I read his outpouring of emotion as just feeling gobsmacked over the betrayal, thinking that he knew someone. And Sierra even said, you know, West, you live one life for the camera, and then you live a completely different life off camera. So um, you know, sometimes I think reality TV is a fallback for people who just weren't talented enough to be an actor, but they are drawn to the spotlight like a moth to the flame, and I think that's West. So I was impressed with the intensity and the honesty of the search for clarity in the reunion, but I don't think that West or Amanda were in a position to really contribute or participate in that clarity. There was a part of me that kept hoping as stuff was coming out about West. And Amanda's like, I don't, I had some of that information, not all of that information. Or when West admitted at the top of the reunion that he had his phone was hacked and nudes were leaked of him. And Amanda's like, Well, I never got any nudes. Right. So it's like, well, I mean, if this is your boyfriend and he's got nudes out there floating, you should have been the first one to see them. So there was a big part of me that was hoping she would just look at him and be like, God damn it. Like I feel bamboozled. I was in a weak, vulnerable moment. And, you know, I feel like she was taken advantage of. I want her to realize that because I feel like at this stage of the game, it's not even about getting back with Kyle, although I think Kyle is still desperately in love with Amanda. But I think Amanda really, she's still in a place where she can save herself. She can come back from this if she just realizes that she messed up, she made a huge mistake and an extremely vulnerable part of her life. She's still quite young. Shit happens, we get it. But West to me is a he's a weasel and he's a predator. I mean, there's so much of my social media interaction around this hot topic where I use the hashtag Weasel West because he's a total weasel. Yeah. And my favorite nickname is um on uh episode of Watch What Happens Live, where one of the guests was from Britain and she said that they call him West TD. I think it's brilliant. But I just think he's the gross character and he wears you know these stupid outfits. It's just it is a lot, it's so performative, and it's so um like it's it's just overly aware for the wrong reasons.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

I remember seeing clips of him from Bob BravoCon too, and that was even even more overly embellished, yeah, his outfits.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

So the question is, why? Like, why would you choose to, as a you know, if you're Amanda, if you're beyond the point of working it out with your husband and you need to leave him, fine, great, okay. But why would you then do something so completely nonsensical and damaging? And Sierra has been extremely hurt by this. And her friendship with Amanda, I think, might be damaged beyond the point of return. Because the whole time she's supporting Amanda and what she's going through with her relationship, Amanda's on the down low, getting it on with her ex, which just him being just West being Sierra's ex to me is not bad form. Right. But it's the fact that West is playing with Sierra. West is pushing the boundaries with Sierra, knowing full well that he is not capable or even has the desire to give her what she's looking for.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

And then he's with Amanda while he has a girlfriend. Another girlfriend, not Sierra, that's not Sierra. Yeah. So yeah, I think that this dude is just really bad news. And I'm trying to make sense over the concept of somebody that comes off the way Amanda does, but just making such a gross, stupid mistake. And what like, why do you want to go from being someone's wife to being this douchebag's side chick? Like, she needs to get down to the free clinic ASAP.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

It's it is weird. I I you and I have talked about like infidelities and and affairs as as these things come up on Bravo shows typically, but just in general. Yeah. And how like for me, it I I've never understood it. Right. I've always thought like you're in a relationship, and if the relationship is no longer working and the two of you decide that, or even if one of you decides that, you're still communicating that, but you don't go off and have an affair with a whole other person while trying to maintain two relationships at the same time. Like that's that just it doesn't make sense. That's it's stupid, but it's been happening for centuries. So what do I know? Right. Um for Amanda to do that as someone on the outside who who kind of knows them, but I haven't connected them in the same way. I see Amanda as someone who uh was in a bad spot, feeling really bad about herself, her life, her choices, and her future, her perspective. Yep. And so I've mentioned to you also how this cast, as fun as it may be at times, is also very incestuous. And that's weird to watch sometimes. All the Bravo shows.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Yeah, but the Bravo universe is very incestuous, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Um so I can see why it happened contextually, right? But I I agree with you. Like seriously, Amanda, you're looking, even if it's not between Kyle, if it's it's between West and any other guy. Right. Like if you're just gonna if you're just gonna fuck around because you don't feel good about yourself in the moment, don't go to that one.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

Yep. That's no, don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

I completely agree with you. And I also think that the you know, there are two different types of affairs that can happen. There is the type of affair where one person's in a relationship, and whether they were too young, didn't know themselves, you know, people get married for a lot of reasons other than true love. They were in the wrong relationship, and then the right person came along, they fell in love with that person, they ended the previous relationship, they they did what could be the honorable thing to do in that situation. I mean, life happens, shit comes up, we can't read the future.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

There may be some overlap, right? Correct.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

And then the other kind of affair is the kind of cavalier affair where people just screw around with no intention of leaving the life that they've created with their partner or spouse for whatever the reason is. And I think that has more to do with control. And I think that they get the thrill or the dopamine rush from the thrill of sneaking around, getting away with something, pulling something over on someone else. And that to me is quite sociopathic behavior because just by nature, if you've chosen someone as your partner, that's the last person that you want to abuse or damage or take advantage of or lie to. Like everything that I do in our relationship is to protect our relationship, to keep it from being vulnerable, because there are a lot of people out there that would have no problem finding a vulnerability and taking advantage of it. And so my commitment, and I can't speak for you, but I also believe that your commitment to me as well is to protect the sanctity of our relationship because we both decided this is the type of relationship that we want. We want to be committed to each other, we want to love each other, we want to protect each other, we want what the other one wants for them. And we also want to keep disease out of our bed. So we've been in a monogamous relationship for 19 years. And that doesn't mean that we don't find other people attractive. And I think also for you and me, as two men, we're also best friends. So if we're driving down the road and we see a hot guy jogging without his shirt on, you or I can say, Oh, whoa, that guy's hot. And the other one's like, Yeah, that guy is hot. And then we don't sit there and think, uh oh, oh my God, what does that mean? Is he, you know, it's right. It's just being honest that as men, we're visual and you know, I mean, hello.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

Well, it's kind of the opposite, actually. We both feel see that it's a hot person, and we're like, oh, how great that we both think that that's a hot person. Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

Yeah. So and and you and I, through the course of our relationship, have had conversations about the nature of our relationship, the course of our relationship. Are we in the same place today that we were yesterday? And do we want to be in the same place tomorrow that we are today? And we keep coming back to that same spot. And for me, it's it's safety, but it's also its own reward. See, like you get back what you put into something. So after 19 years, for you and I to be in the position that we're in now, to me, that that is a reward and and the fruit of our labors it within the relationship. Yeah. And people say relationships are hard and relationships take work, but they shouldn't be that hard. They take work because you have to be committed to staying true and honest with your partner. And sometimes we can't even be that for ourselves. But you bring that motivation out in me to constantly and continually be a transparent and an honest partner. Like there have been times where I've had crushes on people. Like I think it's human nature. Right. But that doesn't mean that you have to act on them.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

No.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

You you have a crush, you get excited when you see somebody, and eventually it it fades because you've made a commitment to yourself and to your relationship.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

And and that to me is very rewarding.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Yeah. It is it is for me too. I mean, you've you've been uh there's a slight age difference between us two, which I think has played out over the years in different ways. But I think in one of the most uh influential ways for me is just uh kind of taking your lead, so to speak, in in recognizing, like, oh, he he is doing this, or that is a that is a great way to to take that approach or to think of it in that way.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

I would say be the example you want to see in others. Right. I am trying to be the partner that I want in you, and you're great at that.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Thank you. I appreciate that. And I uh want to be the partner to you that is uh if not equal but exceeds that, um, not in a competition, but just because I know over the years I'm capable of it. So there's there's joy and there's satisfaction in doing something for for myself ultimately that improves my own life, that uh I also see wow, that has such a positive impact on our relationship and how Jared feels when when I'm taking those things into consideration.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

Thank you. And it's it's wonderful for me as your partner to see you grow and become a more self-realized person because I see the decisions that you make that are healthier today than the decisions that you've made yesterday. I see you grow as an individual. For me, it's not about, oh, well, how do I get Robert to be the best partner that he can be for me? Or how do I fix it? Yeah. It's well, how do I support Robert becoming the best person that I see him capable of being, and in doing so get the benefit of that because you're my partner.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

It's been a shift, for sure. Yeah, I think in my own thinking.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

I think more so in your thinking. I think that there have been moments in our relationship where you've been harder on yourself over certain things than you've needed to be.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

Oh, absolutely. Even in something so basic like our uh our vows, our wedding vows. When you said to me, I I can't wait to see the person uh who you'll grow to be. I'm paraphrasing.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

I I said that I love you so much for who you are today that I accept who you will become tomorrow. Right. Because when you get into a lifelong commitment, which is the intention of a marriage, you have to know that the person that you are with today, you have to know them well enough and you have to love them well enough that you accept who they're going to evolve to tomorrow and help them on that journey. Now, it's one thing if you know we wake up one day and you know something really bad has happened that betrays the relationship. It's not an excuse to stay in a bad marriage or to accept abuse. But I think that what most people consider divorce material is really just somebody being lazy about maintaining the commitment to their partner and then using things like perpetual conflicts, which every person brings to a relationship as an excuse to separate because you entered into that relationship for less than honest reasons. Right.

SPEAKER_02 43:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

You know, you're not getting what you need from that person. Well, are you not getting what you need from that person because they're failing you in maintaining your sense of safety and security? Or are you not getting what you want from that person because they're not doing for you what you really should be doing for yourself?

SPEAKER_01 44:09

I think that that's a very a very astute. Uh way to put that. And it it makes sense, the the distinct distinction between the two. And I think in the context of these people with Amanda, I can absolutely see that, knowing what I know of her relationship with Kyle. Like there are perpetual conflicts. Yep. And at the same time, there are uh boundaries and expectations that are exceeded time and time again and things that he has done over the years that she has said, please don't do that. Yes. Um, and yet he still continues to do that. And Kyle has the same of her, right? And granted, her it may not be the same type of stuff, or like we are more prone to seeing Kyle fuck up than we are to see Amanda. Um, but we still saw it in the show. There were plenty of times where it's like, God, why is she being such a wet blanket right now? Like everyone is just here to have some fun.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

There there were times where it seemed like Amanda struggled with accepting who Kyle was. Right. And you need, or one needs to accept their partner for who they are. And I think that there are a tremendous amount of unrealistic expectations in relationships. I think there always have been, because so much of what motivates us and propels us is comparison, which is horrible. Yeah. It's what social media thrives on, but it's also what kills joy. You can't look at your neighbor and think, oh, I'm falling short because my relationship doesn't look like that, or my husband doesn't bring home that paycheck, or I don't have that kind of car. Right. I mean, if that's how one lives their life, he's never gonna be happy. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

So I think that what makes for a successful relationship is when you have two people who are committed to working on themselves as individuals, and then they bring that best version of themselves to the relationship without expectation. And then you're not robbing yourself of that joy. And and I think that, you know, the the brain is interesting. If you get into a pattern or a habit of constantly looking at and for the negative, that's what your brain then seeks out to validate that expectation.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

And when you start looking at opportunities and you start looking at the positives and anything, whether it's work, relationship, whatever it may be, that's what your brain then starts looking for and starts seeing. It's like the difference of things happening to me versus things happening for me.

SPEAKER_01 46:54

And it's not magic. No, it's not um what was that Oprah thing? Years the secret manifestation. Manifestation. Oh, yeah. Well, it's not the same.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

Manifesting is still a buzzword today.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Right. But I I think I think the word that comes to mind is perspective. Yep. And and you're carrying perspective. Yeah. Without the expectation of things necessarily getting better, but by perpetuating that within yourself, you feel better, yeah, ultimately, and you, like you said, you notice the better things around you.

SPEAKER_00 47:29

I agree. And the more that you work on establishing a stronger sense of self-worth, the less you need and expect that from other people to validate your experience.

SPEAKER_01 47:42

It's taken me a really long time to understand that concept.

SPEAKER_00 47:45

I think it takes everybody a long time to understand that concept. And it took me a very long time to understand that concept. I went through much of my early years with blinders on. I was blinded by the goals that I had set for myself because I thought that those goals would either say something about me to the world or would heal past traumas. Right. Totally wrong. Yeah. It's it's all about the work we do on the inside. I'm a huge advocate for therapy, but you have to find the right therapist and you have to be committed to wanting to be the best version of yourself because it's what makes you happy. It's what helps you grow, it's what helps nurture empathy rather than just trying to be the best presentation that you can be when you step out into the world.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

There's, I think with human nature, there's always going to be a certain dynamic of wondering what people think of me or how am I being perceived. The difference is am I working out of perception because I want to manipulate how others perceive me, or am I working out of perception because I want others to know that when they're dealing with me, they're dealing with transparency, they're dealing with honesty, they're dealing with integrity.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

Yeah. I think that's sound.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

And I think if we all did a little bit more work, if we weren't so afraid to be responsible for those decisions that we have to make for ourselves, then we could be better to ourselves and kinder to ourselves, in turn, making us better, kinder, and more empathetic to others. And I think that's where Amanda and especially West have completely failed in the scenario. I think that when I look at West, I see someone who needs to knock the bullshit off. He needs to get into therapy, he needs to figure out what trauma he's dealing with in his subconscious that makes him act like such a shit bag and start working on being a better person for himself. So because happy people don't behave the way that he behaves.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 49:59

And with Amanda, I think she would benefit from some more therapy and like you said, perspective. She needs to change her perspective. Her brain needs a little bit of neuroplasticity. She needs to rewire herself so that she starts noticing and looking for the positive in things rather than the negative in things. And if she doesn't want to be a part of Kyle's life because he's a party boy, fine. Or you find ways where you can make it work for you. Right. But sometimes, you know, we dig our heels in because the human ego is a very fragile thing. Totally. And we dig our heels in, we cut our noses off despite our faces, and we find ourselves in vulnerable moments where we are prey to the predators of the world. And in that situation, no one is doing anybody any service.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

No, agreed.

SPEAKER_00 50:55

So I'm excited to see what's going to happen. I think by the time this podcast episode airs, we will have already watched because of the the after the bonus episode is happening this week. Okay. Right. So, and then this is going to be following the week after. So I'm excited to see what happens. Again, this is not a recap show, so we're probably not going to do a follow-up, but I'm excited to see how this plays out. There's still the spinoff in the city that's running right now, which was aired uh or sorry, filmed before the statement came out about them being together and before the reunion was filmed. So we're kind of now watching it with a little bit more exposition than than I think was intended at the time that the city was filmed. So I'm excited to see how it plays out. I am definitely team Kyle. I'm kind of rooting for Amanda to make a U-turn, not to go back to Kyle, but to just wake up and realize this guy is not in it for you.

SPEAKER_01 51:57

Yeah. She just needs to go after what she wants.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

And and I would like to see West cut off.

SPEAKER_01 52:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:05

I I would like to see some sense of justice in the fact that somebody that behaves this way, somebody that can be so cavalier and destructive to other people's feelings and lives, is not rewarded by continuing to be given this platform where he can put himself out to the world because unfortunately, people associate celebrity with superiority. So if he's on a reality show, then he must be somebody to aspire to. And that is not the case. Sometimes entertainment comes in the form of a total shit show, and we have to be adult enough to understand that although it might be entertaining to watch, or it might make us feel better about the decisions we've made in our own life. Somebody who has access to being a public figure doesn't mean that they are an aspirational figure.

SPEAKER_01 52:57

Yeah. I I totally agree with that. I from what I saw, I I don't think it didn't look like he was willing to take accountability for anything. He just kind of sat there like a lump. No.

SPEAKER_00 53:08

And he didn't even get up to go after Amanda when she got up.

SPEAKER_01 53:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 53:13

And you know, everyone is like, you need to go after her. Even Kyle, as awkward as it was, he's like, that's your girl. That's your girl now. You need to go after her. And he's like, oh, well, I thought the question was going to come back to me. And it's like, okay, first of all, it isn't all about you. And again, he's so thirsty that he didn't even go after Amanda because he didn't want to miss an opportunity to continue to stay in the spotlight in that moment. Right.

SPEAKER_01 53:38

Even though he planned it.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

That should speak volumes to her. Absolutely. Because it certainly did to everybody else on the couch, and I think to most of us as viewers.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

I I would like to see accountability thrust upon him in that case, knowing that he won't do anything for himself. Yeah. I have one last question for you. And that is in Housewife history, we have seen a ton of bullshit go down. And I almost said Queens, I give it a drug race. Uh I mean we finally. Yeah. We've seen stuff go down and women have been canceled or removed or asked to take off the like stepping off the cast or whatever, or another cast, um, and then come back. Yeah. Like this is Vicky Gundelson's sixth time coming back or something like that to the new season. Yeah, I haven't.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

I'm exaggerating, but yeah, I haven't kept track of her track record. I think she um I think once she was or twice she was friend of. Yeah. And then and then once just not even a part of the show. And now she's coming back as a full-time cast member. Right. And I'm sure she's been this show. That that's gonna that show is gonna start back up uh July 9th. And from the previews that I've seen, she's already up to her old shenanigans, her ego, her behavior, her, you know, that there's a new girl and she's like, you know, you're new. And Vicki's like, I started this franchise, and it's like that's nothing to rest on. That's that's so ridiculous. That's like her comment saying, if you don't have religion, you don't have a moral compass. Like I think Vicky is smarter than that. And I think that the bubble that the housewife franchise and shows create for these women definitely corrupts their sense of perspective and reality. And um, I'm just kind of bored with it. It's like, you know, you you live such privileged lives, you could be doing a hell of a lot more for society and for our culture than what you choose to do with it. I would I would love that in general. Um I would not be sad if tomorrow I woke up to a statement saying that Bravo has decided to close up shop on the Housewife franchises.

SPEAKER_01 55:51

For the good of humanity, for the good of humanity cohen.

SPEAKER_00 55:55

Yeah. Um or just to, you know, make a return. Yeah. So so what if it's not salacious and dramatic? So what if it's you know, if you're not pulling in the same numbers that you are now? I thought it was fun to watch these women live lives to be a fly on the wall. Like documentary. Documentary style almost. And I thought that it was fun, and I thought that it was great because you get to peek into somebody else's life. And what isn't fun about that?

SPEAKER_02 56:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:20

And, you know, to Vicki's comment saying she started the franchise, she may have been one of the original cast members, but it's my understanding that the show was originally about Gina Keyoff. Her friends.

SPEAKER_02 56:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

So um, you know, these women obviously like drag, there is a lot of delusion in the Bravo Liberty world. And sometimes it's fun to tune in and watch, but you know, the older I get and the more I work on myself, the less I find this kind of behavior titillating and exciting and fun to watch. So there are a couple people that that I I kind of root for, and and those are like the three housewife franchises that I tune in for. But, you know, if an episode is going off the rails, uh, okay, I'm skipping this. Or I'm gonna get up and just do something and have it on in the background and then come back to it next week and and see what happens. But um, you know, honesty, transparency, empathy, being a good person for the sake of being a good person is not something that is revered in the Bravo universe and with these women, which is totally hypocritical considering how some of them, especially Vicky, are so much about God and Christianity. And it's like, well, what are you what are you doing to show that you actually live by that moral code? And I don't need religion to tell me what's right and wrong. If I don't know what's right and wrong, I have a problem with empathy, not religion. Right. Because there are a lot of people in this world that don't believe in God who operate with a very strong moral compass because they're in it for the humanity of the experience.

SPEAKER_01 58:03

Right. Yeah. I I think that is sadly a a reflection of a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 58:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:14

And and we see it in politics and we see it in culture at times, and we just see it people walking down the street sometimes. People are just not kind or they don't take their fellow humans in mind. Yes. Uh, sadly. And and the housewives specifically are a reflection of that at times. Um it can change, it can always change.

SPEAKER_00 58:38

You never know what tomorrow is going to bring. So we'll just have to wait and watch what happens. And on that note, I think it is time to say thank you for listening. Yes. And we will see you next Tuesday.

SPEAKER_02 58:56

Bye.